CLUTCH CHATERS IN REVERSE

SEMPER FI FOREVER · Post by **SEMPER FI FOREVER** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 9:33 am

When I installed the new 1835, I had a heavy duty clutch installed at the same time. Now, whenever I go into reverse, the clutch "chatters" and it is nearly impossible to backup, particularily if I increase the RPM's

. Forward shifting is great, barely have to depress the clutch pedal. This problem with the reverse was not evident with the old 1600 and original clutch. What is happening and what is the cure? Thanks.

Post by **Marc** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 10:05 am

Did you do anything to the transmission mounts or clutch cable bowden tube? Does the shiftknob move back & forth any when you jump on the throttle and back off?

Type 5 Joe · Post by **Type 5 Joe** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 10:14 am

Stack some washer between the Bowden tube an the bracket on the trans...

The shock from backing up is probably causing your motor/trans to rock, and is engaging and dis-engaging you clutch.

- Joe

SEMPER FI FOREVER · Post by **SEMPER FI FOREVER** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 10:59 am

IF I SLOWLY FULLY ENGAGE THE CLUTCH AND THEN HIT THE GAS, THE TRANSMISSION POPS OUT OF REVERSE TO NEUTRAL.

Post by **Marc** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 11:32 pm

Does the shifter move when you're going forward and get on & off the gas?

SEMPER FI FOREVER · Post by **SEMPER FI FOREVER** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 6:55 am

There is absolutely no vibration or movement of the gear shifter in forward, couldn't be smoother. In reverse it does feel like the clutch is disengaging and the shifter will actually pop back to neutral if I don't hold it. I have a 181 cd showing quite detailed drawings of the clutch/transmission but can find no reference to a "bowden tube". Is there another name VW uses or this assembly?

Type 5 Joe · Post by **Type 5 Joe** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 7:37 am

The Bowden tube is the flexable tube that connects from the chasis, and is attached to the trans.

The cable goes thru this, and will flex if your engine / trans is shifting up and down.

This will create tension (pulsations)as the torque loads and unloads rapidly.

- Joe

Post by **Marc** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 9:59 am

Reverse on the latemodel transmissions is pretty weak; I suspect you had a problem before replacing the engine but just never noticed it...more torque and a grabby clutch will make Reverse more likely to pop out. Other than increasing the preload to see if you can reduce the clutch chatter there isn't much you can do without trans work. Since you say the shifter doesn't move abnormally the mounts are probably OK. Take a few minutes to make sure the shifter is adjusted properly and that the shiftrod is going fully forward in R/2/4. I'd go ahead and pull the bowden tube and inspect the inner sleeve for wear (replace the tube if needed) and pack some grease in it before reinstalling - shim it for a good 1½" of "sag" and see what happens.

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 8:07 pm

Tighten the engine mount bolts. I'll bet you they are loose. Make sure all 4 are there. everytime I have seen this only in reverse, this was the cause.

Post by **Marc** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 1:27 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SEMPER FI FOREVER:
JUST HAD THE BEST VW SHOP IN TOWN CHECK EVERYTHING....THEY SAY THAT NEXT STEP WOULD BE TO DROP THE ENGINE TO CHECK THE CLUTCH! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, the next step would be based upon the answer to this question...
What happens if you nurse it/hold it in gear until your foot is fully off the clutch and you're rolling along backwards, then goose the throttle? If it's a clutch problem, you've just removed the clutch from the picture since it's fully engaged, and the transmission should stay in gear.
If it still jumps out, you're back to a bad/loose mount problem (but that would be accompanied by shifter movement under accel/decel when going forward) or a weak Reverse.

That's the best shop in town? You have my pity.

SEMPER FI FOREVER · Post by **SEMPER FI FOREVER** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 11:30 pm

JUST HAD THE BEST VW SHOP IN TOWN CHECK EVERYTHING. ALL MOUNTS ARE NEW AND TIGHT, BOWDEN TUBE IS PERFECT, NO VISIBLE SIGNS OF UNUSUAL ENGINE/TRANS MOVEMENT. THEY SAY THAT NEXT STEP WOULD BE TO DROP THE ENGINE TO CHECK THE CLUTCH! THIS REALLY SUCKS!

SEMPER FI FOREVER · Post by **SEMPER FI FOREVER** » Wed Mar 26, 2003 10:13 am

Marc, I did as you said to, " nurse it/hold it in gear until your foot is fully off the clutch and you're rolling along backwards, then goose the throttle? "

Unless I hold the shifter, it pops out of gear. I have had 3 diferent people verify the engine mounts are correct, I am wondering if the shift linkage could be the problem, where reverse is not fully engaging. As I indicated earlier, all forward gears are smooth, no vibration in the shifer.

[This message has been edited by SEMPER FI FOREVER (edited 03-26-2003).]

Post by **Marc** » Wed Mar 26, 2003 10:48 am

Since you never mentioned it, I've been going under the assumption that you haven't touched the shift linkage adjustment, but just to rule it out you could try loosening the two bolts at the base of the shifter and sliding the base as far forward as it will go before snugging them back down. This will ensure that the linkage is going fully into R/2/4, although it could impede full engagement of 1/3 so you shouldn't leave it this way, but if the trans still pops out of Reverse and the mounts aren't moving (you can leave the inspection cover off under the back seat and watch the end of the nosecone) it will confirm an internal transmission problem. If you take the fill plug out of the transmission you can see the 1/2 slider which comprised part of the Reverse gear train; if the teeth on it look "smeared over" (much more rounded on one side than the other), that's what's causing Reverse to pop out.