ignition system for a VW

donny · Post by **donny** » Sun May 04, 2003 7:09 pm

would an ignition system such as an MSD ignition help out a VW at all??
thanks.

Post by **Marc** » Sun May 04, 2003 7:11 pm

Depends on the VW. For a stock or near-stock engine, there are better places to spend the money for a performance gain.

bobmworth · Post by **bobmworth** » Sun May 04, 2003 11:53 pm

I've wondered about that sort of thing myself. Aside from performance gains, I'm assuming an electronic ignition is more or less maintenance free and perhaps more reliable?

Post by **Marc** » Mon May 05, 2003 8:38 am

bobmworth wrote:...I'm assuming an electronic ignition is more or less maintenance free and perhaps more reliable?

Nothing electronic should ever be considered more reliable IMO. When NASCAR first adopted electronic ignitions they were the primary cause of DNFs until somebody got smart and designed systems that had redundant components for everything but the plugs & plugwires. Points are archaic but they take 3 minutes to replace on the side of the road and don't take up much room in the glovebox. For low maintenance the electronic systems win hands down, 99.99% of the time they're the greatest thing on earth....how most people feel about them will be influenced by where they were when the other .01% happened. (The middle of the desert would be one example of a bad spot for an electronic failure).

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon May 05, 2003 8:43 am

I think an electronic ignition makes a huge difference in a stock 1600cc DP. Do not expect much performance gain, but the drivability is greatly improved. I have always replaced points with a Pertronix Ignitor or Compufire. It is without a doubt the best $65 you will spend. I had all sorts of problems with my points. They were burning up after only a couple weeks, and I couldn?t get the timing to stay in one place. The timing issues happened to be a .0.68 cent spring, and the Compufire greatly improved starting, idle and throttle response. However, for the money, I like the Pertronix Ignitor better.

Post by **Marc** » Mon May 05, 2003 9:23 am

Compared to a conventional system in good health there isn't going to be any noticeable difference on a stock engine with the possible exception of slightly quicker starting. Certainly if you can't figure out how to make a conventional system work, you'll be better off changing over - and at the price of Bosch points & condensers these days, the return-on-investment time isn't even that bad.

amskeptic · Post by **amskeptic** » Mon May 05, 2003 11:34 am

I have found nothing better than a good set of Bosch plugs, connectors, wires, points, rotor, coil, and distributor, with a correctly oiled wick to keep the centrifugal weights happy.
'73 Bus at 436,000 miles, putting out a high-performance 74 BHP.
Colin

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Mon May 05, 2003 8:31 pm

Marc, That is not quite correct. I will qualify that. Type 4 for instance, in the higher compression injection engine is so far UNDERIGNITED by the factory ignition...even with 100% brand spankin new stock Bosch components, that the spark is easily lost in the above 3500 rpm range. Yes...its more than falloff of spark. In a carbed 1600? the stock ignition..as proven from the 1930's onward...is probably more than adequate. It is not adequate on any of the lean burn, higher compression type 3 and 4 fuel injected engines...to include the Euro 1.8 and the 2.0 with D-jet. The simple addition of a pertronics or compufire is an easy 2 hp on a perfectly tuned engine ...and a lot of throttle response and a bit more smoothness in the midrange. Because of the standard losses incurred by stock carbs...I agree...you would probably notice no difference at all, unless the stock ignition itself was malfunctioning. It is quite a difference on a properly tuned injected engine. The stock ignition is a huge weak point in these systems. Poor ignition equals a poor flame front. On the short strokes of these stock engines, the higher compression will be of no help, if the gases are exiting partially burned. When the stock injection enginesare properly tuned, just adding an electronic triggering device is good for almost a full point of HC reduction at best adjustment by my experience. That is not in deference to cleaner emissions. A full point of CO on these engines is the difference between a flat spot off the line and spinning the tires. Just my opinion from my experience. Ray

redcorradoguy · Post by **redcorradoguy** » Mon May 05, 2003 11:18 pm

Which is better, Pertronix or Compufire?

Best place to get them?

David

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue May 06, 2003 2:56 pm

I have a compufire on my '71 Westy, and a Pertronix on my Bayliner. I personally like the design of the Pertronix better.

SuperBeetle · Post by **SuperBeetle** » Tue May 06, 2003 3:34 pm

I have the petronix in my bug and feel I have wasted my cash. It has a 1600 dp and I have noticed no positive difference in any way, if anything it took awhile to get it working right.
Think of how many points you can buy for $65 that will do basically the same thing on a stock set up.

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Tue May 06, 2003 3:52 pm

The pertronix unit appeared to be built a little better and had better wiring. Otherwise they worked about the same.
Superbeetle.....if you see no difference, it leads me to ask...were you experiencing a problem that lead you to replace the points? If overall performance was not what was expected, and the real problem was mechanical, fuel mixture/carb related, advance related or cooling related....you should expect no difference.
Generally, on a stock 1600 DP, a properly tuned stock igniion is just fine. Its when you start tweaking the engine and driving/revving it harder and higher that the relatively low voltage of the stock coil system and the high loss rate of the stock points become noticable. Also, if nothing else was replaced...say if the wires, coil, cap, rotor and plugs have any deficiencies...you will notice nothing. Infact it may get worse. The pertronix/compufire are simply switches...just like points. We an debate reliability...but their CONSISTANCY and uniformity of spark compared to points is much better. Thats why many people notice a much smoother ignition from them. Some of this is actually from the magnetic pick up of these types of ignition units, being able to mask worn lobes in the distributor. That can commonly cause the most amount of variation with points. Its much less discernable in the electronic units Ray

JohnConnolly · Post by **JohnConnolly** » Tue May 06, 2003 3:56 pm

but in what application? at what RPM, and what cylinder pressures? Stock Kettering (points/condenser) ignitions fall off rapidly above 3K RPM. If you drive below that RPM, and don't mind ignition maintenance, run points. How the spark is triggerred is VERY different from the quality of the spark...... that's another story.

John
Aircooled.Net Inc.

amskeptic wrote:I have found nothing better than a good set of Bosch plugs, connectors, wires, points, rotor, coil, and distributor, with a correctly oiled wick to keep the centrifugal weights happy.
'73 Bus at 436,000 miles, putting out a high-performance 74 BHP.
Colin

amskeptic · Post by **amskeptic** » Tue May 06, 2003 7:26 pm

JohnConnolly wrote:but in what application? John
Aircooled.Net Inc.

amskeptic wrote:I have found nothing better than a good set of Bosch plugs, connectors, wires, points, rotor, coil, and distributor, with a correctly oiled wick to keep the centrifugal weights happy.
'73 Bus at 436,000 miles, putting out a high-performance 74 BHP.
Colin

My application, as stated above, is merely to set off a 7.3:1 stock Bus that cruises at maybe 4,000 rpm. It has been doing nicely for the two and a half decades I've owned the thing. An important consideration for me is that the stock system has never ever stranded me ever. The car has never stopped me from getting to where I need to go. The trade-off of losing a couple of high rpm sparks occasionally is vastly preferable to the plights of those people who have hitched rides from me when their Dodge Ram spark packs have up and died, when their Ford ignition modules just quit due to high underhood temperatures, even that guy whose BMW 735i magnetic pickup roll pin sheared in his distributor. " Nice Bus," he said as we drove him and his three irritable little children to the next exit.
Colin

bottomend · Post by **bottomend** » Tue May 06, 2003 8:22 pm

To the Skeptic;

Knife in.
Twist.
Knife out.
Touche'.