ok im looking at a 71 411 wagon. the owner died and his son gave it to a friend. itlooks great but heres the problems..
i didnt get to driv it as i needs brakes. i was told there was a metal brake line missing from the car but that he did have the repacement part to repair it. will this be a problem to repair?
also he said there were these black hoses that go t the engine that needed to be replaced. they were to bring air in. an scince there were holes in it th engine would smoke and not run right. what is this and can it easily be repaired?
all initial repairs to get it road ready will be done by a mechanic that has over 30 years of vw experience.
please help.
neil
engine questions
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11912
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
Metal brake line ....missing?!...? That mean rusted off? How long since this thing has been driven. If its been missing a brake line....everything is shot...(which I count on anyway). So...it needs a new line through the tunnel? Look for rust under the floor mats and the tar boards. The lines don't just rust with nothing else rusting around it.
The engine....there are no fresh air lines..except for the heater. The cooling air has a boot that goes to the intake space in the rear valance. If that is shot....they are hard to find but can be fabricated. If that boot being gone has caused the engine to run rough and smoke...chances are there is a lot wrong with the engine. Don't despair...be be prepared to rebuild it. 91,000 miles is about rebuild time anyway for a stock wagon with an automatic....and one that has been sitting for a while.
The fact that it will be repaired by a mechanic with 30 years of experience means nothing to me...no offense. This car was built before that mechanic started working. Most mechanics from the early 70's who worked on 411/412...knew only enough about their systems to get by. I have seen horrendous things done by the dealer. there just were not very many around...so they did not get much experience before they disapeared.
Does this mechanic have any experience with type 4? Als...is this car stock? That means automatic transmission...right? D-jet fuel injection on a 1.7 liter right? Lots to learn here! Be pepared for surprises. Also...register in the forum. What area of the country are you from? That also may have some bearing on the condition of the cars you find in your area. Ray
The engine....there are no fresh air lines..except for the heater. The cooling air has a boot that goes to the intake space in the rear valance. If that is shot....they are hard to find but can be fabricated. If that boot being gone has caused the engine to run rough and smoke...chances are there is a lot wrong with the engine. Don't despair...be be prepared to rebuild it. 91,000 miles is about rebuild time anyway for a stock wagon with an automatic....and one that has been sitting for a while.
The fact that it will be repaired by a mechanic with 30 years of experience means nothing to me...no offense. This car was built before that mechanic started working. Most mechanics from the early 70's who worked on 411/412...knew only enough about their systems to get by. I have seen horrendous things done by the dealer. there just were not very many around...so they did not get much experience before they disapeared.
Does this mechanic have any experience with type 4? Als...is this car stock? That means automatic transmission...right? D-jet fuel injection on a 1.7 liter right? Lots to learn here! Be pepared for surprises. Also...register in the forum. What area of the country are you from? That also may have some bearing on the condition of the cars you find in your area. Ray
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kenfyoozed387
im from south alabama. so how hard is it to replace this brak line.
the more i ask the worse i want this car, but its starting to scare me. i dont want t be without parts and have a car i cant drive because there are no parts.
i may go check it out once again , what do i need to look for?
i would really like to gve this car a home, but im not sure my cash flow will allow me to. what are we talking priceise to fix the frnt ad level it all around?
how hard to fix all brake parts? i see you say master cylender is 200.00 . can nothing else be used?
imstarting to think this may b out of my leauge.
neil
the more i ask the worse i want this car, but its starting to scare me. i dont want t be without parts and have a car i cant drive because there are no parts.
i may go check it out once again , what do i need to look for?
i would really like to gve this car a home, but im not sure my cash flow will allow me to. what are we talking priceise to fix the frnt ad level it all around?
how hard to fix all brake parts? i see you say master cylender is 200.00 . can nothing else be used?
imstarting to think this may b out of my leauge.
neil
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11912
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
Ahhhhhh...Gwasshoppa.....you ask the magic questions. You are hooked...admit it!
Yes! much of this can be gotten around. Two things really...or two ways for the master cylinder. For very little work..you can pull out the metal braket for the pedal support...as I did....and simply weld on a 2-bolt bracket to allow the use of a superbeetle or rabbit master cylinder. Or...if you have good master cylinders on the stock cylinder...you can use the seals ONLY...not the pistons...from a type 3 master cylinder. Rotors, drums and calipers are not really a problem. Teflon braided brake lines are now cheaper than stock rubber...so thats good too. The metal brake line through the tunnel is a long straight piece. Not too hard to replace at all. It does not actually run through the tunnel...it runs beside it under the floor mat. Check it out. There may be rust in the floor boards. The other method for master cylinder..sound complex...but is not that hard. I will soon be doing it to mine.
In the trunk..against the fire wall...you will find the stampings where the holes go for power brake booster. Drill them....use either a rabbit or fox booster and master cylinder. Leave the lines where they are...simply extend to them with teflon stainless braided line (about $45 to do that). Out of plate..you will need to fabricate a 1:1 pivot bar to transfer from the factory pedal...to the brake booster. The hole is in the body tunnle to run a 13mm aluminum or copper tube for the booster. The rabbit naster cykinder...with a foxbooster will probably be the correct combo. That way...replacement parts are cheap...easier to work on....and you get power brakes. You will need to buy a balance valve for the rear (adjustable aftermarket). The cost long term for this set up with new cylinders...and say a good used brake booster to start with...is about $200-250 max. But when you have to replace the cylinder...its at your local store..and $35.
To do all the front suspension...with the welding outsourced and the machine work out sourced, but all else done by you....you can get away for about $650 including all parts.
The rear is about $150 without lowering...which I think could be done...seriously...with a hole saw of about 3" diameter...and piece of 3" pipe on each side..with a flange welded onto it, for each side. It raises the top bushing plate where the stock shock connects. The rear springs....could possibly be cut...but not the front. Just make sure you get a spare set before you start this. They would have to be cut on the bottom...and have the tang ground flat...and not more than 1.5 coils removed.
But...there are a lot of things that cannot be gotten....easily. So be prepared to either swap seats...which would be sad, the 411/412 had the best seats around......or have them custom made.
If you guys want to go in with me...I will send mine in to sew fine and have a pattern made. Its $450 bucks to have the front seats made just like factory...with your choice of materials. If you guys can help knock that down for me...then they will now have a pattern on hand...so ANYONE can have 411/412 seat covers made for about $250 for the pair. The back seat is identical to a 69 type 3 fastback with a fold down armrest. They have that pattern in stock.
Lots of things I can help you with. You will also need to decide what you are doing with the engine. The stock engine with the stock injection i think is great...but building a type 4 is not dirt cheap...do a search here. Ray
Yes! much of this can be gotten around. Two things really...or two ways for the master cylinder. For very little work..you can pull out the metal braket for the pedal support...as I did....and simply weld on a 2-bolt bracket to allow the use of a superbeetle or rabbit master cylinder. Or...if you have good master cylinders on the stock cylinder...you can use the seals ONLY...not the pistons...from a type 3 master cylinder. Rotors, drums and calipers are not really a problem. Teflon braided brake lines are now cheaper than stock rubber...so thats good too. The metal brake line through the tunnel is a long straight piece. Not too hard to replace at all. It does not actually run through the tunnel...it runs beside it under the floor mat. Check it out. There may be rust in the floor boards. The other method for master cylinder..sound complex...but is not that hard. I will soon be doing it to mine.
In the trunk..against the fire wall...you will find the stampings where the holes go for power brake booster. Drill them....use either a rabbit or fox booster and master cylinder. Leave the lines where they are...simply extend to them with teflon stainless braided line (about $45 to do that). Out of plate..you will need to fabricate a 1:1 pivot bar to transfer from the factory pedal...to the brake booster. The hole is in the body tunnle to run a 13mm aluminum or copper tube for the booster. The rabbit naster cykinder...with a foxbooster will probably be the correct combo. That way...replacement parts are cheap...easier to work on....and you get power brakes. You will need to buy a balance valve for the rear (adjustable aftermarket). The cost long term for this set up with new cylinders...and say a good used brake booster to start with...is about $200-250 max. But when you have to replace the cylinder...its at your local store..and $35.
To do all the front suspension...with the welding outsourced and the machine work out sourced, but all else done by you....you can get away for about $650 including all parts.
The rear is about $150 without lowering...which I think could be done...seriously...with a hole saw of about 3" diameter...and piece of 3" pipe on each side..with a flange welded onto it, for each side. It raises the top bushing plate where the stock shock connects. The rear springs....could possibly be cut...but not the front. Just make sure you get a spare set before you start this. They would have to be cut on the bottom...and have the tang ground flat...and not more than 1.5 coils removed.
But...there are a lot of things that cannot be gotten....easily. So be prepared to either swap seats...which would be sad, the 411/412 had the best seats around......or have them custom made.
If you guys want to go in with me...I will send mine in to sew fine and have a pattern made. Its $450 bucks to have the front seats made just like factory...with your choice of materials. If you guys can help knock that down for me...then they will now have a pattern on hand...so ANYONE can have 411/412 seat covers made for about $250 for the pair. The back seat is identical to a 69 type 3 fastback with a fold down armrest. They have that pattern in stock.
Lots of things I can help you with. You will also need to decide what you are doing with the engine. The stock engine with the stock injection i think is great...but building a type 4 is not dirt cheap...do a search here. Ray
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kenfyoozed
- Posts: 89
- Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2002 12:01 am
kenfyoozed
thanks for all your help. i feel a litle better now.
neil
neil