Thing Rear Drum differences

turboblue · Post by **turboblue** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:16 pm

Hello all

I have a customer wanting to convert his 4 lug IRS drag bug to 5 lug w/o going to disc brakes. I ordered him a pair of 181 501 615A Thing drums from my OEM supplier. Got them in today, WOW, these drums are huge! And weigh 18# each!
Was doing some research on the web and at this site, http://www.customspeedparts.com/ there are 2 different Thing drums listed. Click on wheel/brakes, then click on brake drums. The ones we are looking for are the 8th item ('70-73) down the page. The ones that came in are the 9th item ('74-'80) down the page. Wasn't the Thing imported to the states in '73 and '74? Anyone have a source on the 8th line down drums? This company's stateside rep. wants $140 each + shipping for the correct ones.

Thanks in advance.....

rfoutch · Post by **rfoutch** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:46 pm

So-cal sells German thing drums for less then half that price. Here is the link

http://www.socalautoparts.com/HotVWs_Ad ... d_p07.html

About half way down the page, lists as Drum, 73-74, Thing (German) they are $69.95

Much cheaper then the ones that you are looking at.

Randy

Bob Ingman · Post by **Bob Ingman** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:59 pm

There are a pr of Thing rear drums on thesamba now in the Thing parts for sale classifieds. The point of origin will determine price. Braz drums run half the price of German. Have you looked into using 66 T-3 drums. Best of luck. Bob Ingman

germansupplyscott · Post by **germansupplyscott** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 2:33 pm

turboblue,

those drums 501 615 211A on the csp website were not used on things in north america, afaik. it is an early type 2 rear drum, look at the part number.

by the way, the csp part numbering system is bizarre, they seem to have the vw numbers written backwards, but the letter suffixes are messed up as well.

at any rate, that drum is expensive, no matter how you slice it - here is one from Wolfsburg West, the same part i believe:

http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/Detai ... 211501615A

out of curiousity, why won't the thing drums work for your application?

turboblue · Post by **turboblue** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 3:13 pm

Thanks for the replies guys.

Randy
I own a VW shop and can get the same drum as SoCal and sell it for what they do. The problems is we are looking for the 70-73 drum that custom speed list on the links I posted earlier. I bet the SoCal drum is the same thing I just rec'd, the 181 501 615 part for the '74-80, that is, the '74-80 drum that custom speed list.

Bob
Thanks for the lead, but those are exactly what I got in for my customer. Looling for the earlier ones. Must be a non USA part number

Scott
Those look like the ones we need, but at $150 each, wow!
The reason we wanted the "early" thing is because of the weight, the ones I just rec'd are massive, and weigh 18# each. Not good for a drag beetle.
It does appear that custom speed parts turn their part numbers around.

501 615 211A would be like the one at WBW only the right # is 211 501 615
501 615 181 is the ones I have, a 181 501 615A which, according to them, is a '74-80 Thing

Thanks for the imput guys. Looks like we will have to go with '66 T-3 if we can find them.....

germansupplyscott · Post by **germansupplyscott** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 4:05 pm

gary,

i doubt there will be much weight savings with the csp early thing drums over the late ones anyhow!

Bruce2 · Post by **Bruce2** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:14 pm

I bet the early one is for swing axle with reduction boxes, and the later one is IRS, and that they were off by one year in their description.

Mattt · Post by **Mattt** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 2:07 am

I second Bruce's assessment. That WW link drum is the early Thing w/ redux boxes drum. Probably wont work on your drag bug if it originally had 4 lug drums(which tells me later car vs. early car).

turboblue · Post by **turboblue** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 9:07 am

Yeah, probably right on the G/R thing. The other bad part about the later thing drum is that it is 7/8" wider at the wheel mounting surface. This thing drum is 3.125 inches from the back edge to the wheel surface. 4 lug drums are 2.250. That makes it even harder to get a slick tucked under the fender.

It was worth a try.
Thanks.........

Mattt · Post by **Mattt** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 12:10 pm

Im not 100% sure on this, but what was the last year bug to have Wide 5 pattern,,,,,67? Is a 67 S/A instead of IRS? Will the 67 drum not work on the 68+ brake backing plate?

Is the only reason for this quest to get to Wide 5 wheel pattern?

Post by **Marc** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 1:08 pm

Besides the shorter nose on the 5-lug Type I drum, the friction surface is also narrower (as were pre`68 shoes) - so narrow that `68-up shoes may not even fit fully inside the drum unless you cheat and turn the drum a little deeper. Plenty of folks have managed to Mickey-mouse 5-lug rear drums onto `68-up brake assemblies by shimming them out, but it's hardly what I'd consider a professional solution. You can use `65-`67 brake assemblies (backing plates, wheel cylinders, shoes) if downgrading to the narrower linings doesn't trouble you - but you still need a spacer between the drum and the axle nut (it's a good idea to check the axle nut torque at least a couple times a year if you run a spacer).

Bob Ingman wrote:...Have you looked into using 66 T-3 drums...

`64-`65 Type III 5-lug rear drums are the same diameter as the `66-up 4-lug (251.5mm) so they would require that the larger (and heavier) Type III backing plate assemblies also be used. Not a bad move as far as stopping power goes, but not much help if keeping unsprung weight down is important.
EARLY Type III (`61-62 to VIN 0076299) used 231 mm drums and 40mm wide shoes; `63 (to VIN 0221974) had 45mm shoes. They're both 1mm larger in diameter than Bug drums, so it's not likely that you'll find a used one that'll still have a successful radius match with a standard Beetle shoe - but having the shoes relined with "oversized" (1mm thicker) lining material will solve that problem.

The swingaxle Thing drums are nothing but ½-ton Bus items (pre`63, through VIN 1144302) and they ARE 230mm x 40mm. Of course, it's not likely you'll find one of those that hasn't been turned too big to fit properly with standard Beetle linings either - but the oversized lining trick still works, and you needn't be overly concerned about them being too thin for safety on the lighter vehicle (out to about 9.15", at least). They were popular with the off-road crowd about 40 years ago...I can't recall if they needed any machining at the lip to fit `58-up Type I backing plates but that'd be easy enough to do if you have a lathe.

turboblue · Post by **turboblue** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 1:27 pm

Mattt

You are right, '67 was the last year for wide 5. I think those drums, unfortunately, are narrower along with the shoes. And the splines are not as long as the '68 S/A and the '69 up IRS. One would have to machine a spacer to compensate for the lesser spline length, and install it between the drum and axle nut. Otherwise, the nut will bottom on the spline before the drum is tight.
And we wanted to go with the wide 5 for the "look" too!

Kubelmann · Post by **Kubelmann** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 4:51 pm

This may not be information that matters but here goes

Here is Thing rear brake drum information from a well known, knowledgeable
source..

- Rear: the rear brake drums for the two transaxle set-ups were different:
Chassis serial up to 183 2346 524 (Mexico: 183 2493 402): the rear brake drum on the VW 181 with swing axle transaxle (plus reduction gears) is the same as on the August 1960 - July 1963 type 2 (Bus) with that transaxle layout. Note: the same goes for brake shoes.
o Chassis serial 183 2346 525 up (Mexico: 183 2493 403 up): the rear brake drum for the double-jointed ('IRS') transaxle is easy to identify as it has the 181- part number cast into the outside face of the drum. There just is not any other VW drum that will fit correctly. The difference all starts with the stub axle. The type 181 stub axle was designed to meet a specification for military use set down in the original NATO contract in 1966. As a result we have an odd combination of CV joints, stub axles and drums. Only the 181 drum will properly and safely fit the 181 stub axle. VW part no. 181 501 615A.

Greg at German Motor Works sells the real GERMAN (new) for $68
The Thing Shop and Things Unlimited sells the same for $75

K-mann