has anyone actually lowered a type 4?

minty73 · Post by **minty73** » Fri May 28, 2004 2:48 pm

i have read alot of 'how do you lower....' posts with ray giving his advice, but i havent seen any posts saying 'i have lowered my T4, this is how i did it'

so who's done it and how?

because, predictably, i want to drop the front on mine and need to know the easiest way to do it!

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Fri May 28, 2004 3:20 pm

For correct handling...and much better I might add....all it needs to go is about 1" in the front. Much more is detrimental to high speed handling and longevity on this car...unless you completely re-design the suspension mounting points and have new springs made and calculated etc. This car is already really low slung. When set level...and with wide low profile tires....you get no empty wheel well looks. Ray

minty73 · Post by **minty73** » Fri May 28, 2004 3:24 pm

so how do i get the 1 inch drop? just carry some ballast? that would certainly be the easiest way!

the empty arch is what i want to get away from

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Sat May 29, 2004 10:21 am

Read my back posts about using the audi struts. Thast how I did it.
The ballast idea is actually the one the factory had. Thats why they did the nose high thing. It was an error.
The springs on the front end of these cars are actually HUGE. They are more than enough for this care ever! They were designed...around that huge trunk. This car was designed as a highway travelling car. When the trunk is loaded, the car sits level....and handles much better. The miscalculation was in the fact that the rebound rates of the stock cartridges was too poor to allow constant running this way. 6 mos. of running with a ballasted trunk will detsroy the stock cartridges...but not the springs. If you must ballast...it can be done well...by adding the weight right up against the front nose between the headlights. This way, it has more leverage on the suspension and requires much less weight. Ray

Banzai KG · Post by **Banzai KG** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 7:20 pm

minty73 wrote:i have read alot of 'how do you lower....' posts with ray giving his advice, but i havent seen any posts saying 'i have lowered my T4, this is how i did it'

so who's done it and how?

because, predictably, i want to drop the front on mine and need to know the easiest way to do it!

Here's one that was a Kelley Park show in April 2000:

And this one at the VW Classic 2002 as well as OldBug.com /and featured in VW Trends:

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 7:50 pm

Really nice looking cars...but...and this is my opinion only,...how are you going to drive them? At stock height the rear beam and its sway bar...on 205/60-15's...is precisely 6.0" from the pavement...actually closer to 5.5 on shock travel due to the design of the trailing arm. Unlike an american low rider...wherin you can drop the body lower on the frame....you must change the axis of the rear wheels on a 411/412 by cutting down the springs...or cutting the bodyand letting them ride higher. To drop the car that far...your beam will be within about 2" of the pavement. With the change in available arc from the rear trailing arms, there will no be enough motion to arrest the weight of the rear end. ...Unless you have air bags or soemthing. Those handle poorly. The other by product is the rear wheel cambering problem you see on the gray wagon....and lack of travel on the front control arms. Nifty looking...but not able to cruise highways and streets at much more than 40 anymore. Oh well...to each their own. Ray

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 9:00 pm

I think that's the same car. It got the wood grain and other stuff later at oldbug IIRC. I believe it's on airbags. I don't think it could drive at that "show" height.

ubercrap · Post by **ubercrap** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 9:12 pm

Here's a pic at it's driveable height!

http://www.oldbug.com/119-1962_IMG.JPG

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 9:52 pm

Thats smarter! Still....it will get you there and back. But have you ever driven a car on air bags? Especially one with a center of gravity like a 412? I guess everyone has a style and hobby they like. I'm just not interested in the cruising/low-rider scene. If they make a work of art out of a total basket case that would have been scrapped....cool. But thats rarely the case...and it can rarely be reversed. I also frequently nearly plow cars like that on the highway in Dallas...with other cars peeling around them because they are at their honest best highway speed of about 45-50 at rush hour trying not to chip their teeth, bruise their kidneys, break their suspension...or rip off the oil pan on the ceramic "city-titties" that divide the lanes.
I truely believe in lowering the center of gravity on a vehicle that is set too high...and when it needs it. The 411/412 is not actually one of the cars that need it. With the correct tires, decent shocks, and better bushings....and 1" of corrective lowering in the front end...I kid you not. These cars look and handle amazingly. Just an opinion. Ray

Banzai KG · Post by **Banzai KG** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 7:23 am

Anonymous wrote:I think that's the same car. It got the wood grain and other stuff later at oldbug IIRC. I believe it's on airbags. I don't think it could drive at that "show" height.

The primered one is not the same car, because I remembered see that the guy/car lived somewhere up here in the San Francisco Bay Area.

ubercrap · Post by **ubercrap** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:27 am

I beg to differ...

http://www.oldbug.com/412.htm

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:36 pm

On which subject do you differ? lowering in general...or the roots of those two cars? Ray

minty73 · Post by **minty73** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:47 pm

definetly the same car, to be honest i think it looks awful in the primer, really doesnt suit it, black primer well thats different! watch this space

ray do you have any pics of the car you lowered?

ubercrap · Post by **ubercrap** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:57 pm

Oh, yeah, I meant that it's definitely the same car. I have no idea how it would drive, just know that it would be impossible in it's fully dropped show stance. I know what you mean Ray, I thought that 2" of lowering on my GTI wouldn't be that drastic, but it changed the character of the car dramatically. It's tolerable, but definitely different. And that's with precisely matched springs and dampers from H&R. Some feel the damping on rebound is a little weak with my setup though...

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 4:47 pm

I have a lot of pictures. I can't decide what to buy first lately..a digital camera...or a negative scanner. I have a darkroom...I take photographs. Digital still has not beaten film in many respects. I need to get both. I will probably get a cheapy digital next month. The nwhen I get back from the phillipines...Iwill roll my sweety out of the storage unit and take some general shots. When I macro shots...like extreme magnification of very small parts...digital still cannot compare (except for a very few high end digital cameras that have interchangable lenses...and may have true single focal length, macro lenses ...not crappy zooms....available).....they cannot comapre to film and film lens systems in grain, lack of distortion and detail...especially in black and white. Pictures will come soon. Ray

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has anyone actually lowered a type 4?

has anyone actually lowered a type 4?

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