Whats the Difference...............?

PruFrok · Post by **PruFrok** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:50 pm

Hey all, was wondering what the difference between a bug front beam and a thing front beam? A picture of a Thing front beam would help out a lot! Thank you!
Jason

Bob Ingman · Post by **Bob Ingman** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:04 am

Richard the beams are the same. Its the spindles and arms that differ. Cheers. Bob Ingman

Mattt · Post by **Mattt** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:54 am

There are two differences in the beams. The Thing beam has the mounting tab/bracket for the beam to pan bracket. It also has another layer of steel on the shock tower so the outside of the tower is double thick.

PruFrok · Post by **PruFrok** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:29 am

Ah ok, thank you! Was asking because I was looking at the front beam of a Thing my friend recently picked up that is suppose to have a bug front beam. But when I was looking at it, both balls and the tie rod end spindles point downwards, while on the ball joint front end of my bug, the ball below the tie rod end points upwards. Trying to figure out why his front end is different. Thanks!

Bob Ingman · Post by **Bob Ingman** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:35 am

Yes both ball joints are parrellel in the 181 suspension. They work together not against each other as does the bug. I interpreted your question to be beam specific not as an entire drum to drum assembly. Good luck. Bob Ingman

germansupplyscott · Post by **germansupplyscott** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:05 pm

thing beam also has different torsion leaves. beetle leaves will fit into a thing beam and vice versa, but the leaves themselves are different, and have different spring rates.

Bruce2 · Post by **Bruce2** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:29 am

punkinfair wrote:thing beam also has different torsion leaves. beetle leaves will fit into a thing beam and vice versa, but the leaves themselves are different, and have different spring rates.

What's the difference in the spring rate? How is this achieved?

Bob Ingman · Post by **Bob Ingman** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:39 am

Scott I had always heard that the torsion leaves in the thing were different. Last year when widening and turning the beam on my car I used a second set of leaves from a bug. Both Mark Johnson and myself compared the two sets in every way we could think of. It was my conclusion that if the sets were different it was in composition and spring rate. No visable differences whatsoever could be discerned. Do your findings support this theory? Cheers. Bob

germansupplyscott · Post by **germansupplyscott** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:30 am

bob,

i may have goofed somewhere. i just looked it up, and my parts ref says the torsion leaves are the same part, beetle and thing, part # 131 411 107A. i am not sure where i got the earlier idea. maybe from thethingshop's video which says the torsion leaves are thing only.

Bob Ingman · Post by **Bob Ingman** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:04 pm

Scott my reasoning would have me believe that if it is the case that they have different rates of resistance that this would also carry over to the rear torsion bars as well. You know how VW is about that type of logic. What do you find as far as a rear torsion #s camparison. Bob

Post by **Marc** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:10 pm

I was unaware that there was any difference until this thread came along:
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=66137

Years ago we put a 181 beam on our pre-runner Beetle and I don't remember seeing any "thin leaf" ...but that doesn't mean anything, it's been too long and for all I know the leaves may have been replaced before I ever saw it anyway.

Kubelmann · Post by **Kubelmann** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 10:46 pm

The Thing Beam and the Beettle Beam are not the same. The Thing beam has seam welds on the top shcok towers. It has side plates that are dowuble welded to mount the front beam to pan supports The fornt leaf spring sheaves are not Beetle parts. It is like the long tie rod. The Thing has a different part. Can you use a beetle part? Yes... Is it the same part? NO!!!! A "real" long Thing tie rod has a slot to push the jamb nut into. The list goes on. Check with Ken C or Vince. they know the truth (so do I) It is lik a 111 953 235G emergency flasher switch replace it wiht a 211 953 235A switch ans certain things no longer work (unless you are a rocket scientist) Remember "it works" and "it is the saem" are two very dofferent things. The front leaves are not the same on a Bug adn a Thing That is a fact. I took as set of good 73 bug top front leaves and a set of good 73 Thing top front leaves and put then in a press with a rate guage adn thye are not the same. Also the "real" part number for the front leaves is 181 411 027. The front anti sway bar is a 181 part only. The steering knuckles, ball joints. Oh yeah a 182 (Trekker has a beam wiht a part number 182 400 125B. If anyone cares. I can list every front end part that is 181 only by fact not fiction... These are the facts based on original VW documents and from taking an undisturbed 181 apart and taking the part numbers directly from the original parts. FACT.. K-panzer

Bob Ingman · Post by **Bob Ingman** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 12:55 pm

Rather than ask Ken C directly I just checked right here on our Parts interchange thread and find the following info.......
Right Tie Rod is 181 specific pt# 181 415 5802
Left tie Rod same as 1302/1303 VW Part# 131 415 801F
All tie Rod ends are VW 1302/1303 or T-3 Torsion SPRINGS are 181 VW pt# 181 411 027
Torsion Arm Upper Left VW 181 405 103
Torsion Arm Upper Right VW 181 405 104
Torsion Arm Lower Left VW 181 405 151A
Torsion Arm Lower Right VW 181 405 152
This is probably pretty much in line with what Kubelmann has reported. Cheers Bob Ingman

Kubelmann · Post by **Kubelmann** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:56 pm

Here is where y'all would benefit from having real data. The front leaves on a Thing are part number 181 411 027 German TUV standards demand that the number tells the truth. Some of the post on this thread miss the boatby miles. If you take apart 100 Things you will get the facts confused if you base your research on parts from a car that have had 30 or more owners in the last 30+ years. I have direct experience from 5 Things. All of these have had less thatn 5 owners. My Dad's had 2, Both of mine (I) am the third , the other has had only two. My point is once a Thing has been jerked around by someone wiht little or no concept of NOS vs OEM vs whatever, This thing is useless for part origin research adn verification. In 1982 my Dad owned the most original (continuosly owner) beige bug in LA county (according to VOA) He had the car factory restored by Plunketts in Sunland/Tujunga twice. My point is that I used that car to uncover the truth of how stuff was not is. About a year and a half ago we hade a very heated thread about the black headed "original" Thing key. I called my Dad and asked him to close his eyes and describe in detail the key that came with his 73 Thing. FOr the first time in my life, I realized that he bought his 73 Thing used from Vasik Pollak in 74 with 10,000 miles on it... My DAd claimed that the orignal key was plastic black headed nd would only start the car in one postion. MAny argued that an "R" key fit adn operated either wasy. So, I get K-Panz and lo and behold I get both original keys a "type R" and the black, plastic headed key (type"L") that will only open the front doors or start the car if it is put in the correct position. HK/KP

germansupplyscott · Post by **germansupplyscott** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:41 am

Kubelmann wrote:Here is where y'all would benefit from having real data. The front leaves on a Thing are part number 181 411 027 German TUV standards demand that the number tells the truth.

k-mann,

ETKA lists the leaves as 131 411 107A. thethingshop.com lists 181 411 027. my original posts referred to the thing-only leaves, then i looked it up in ETKA and found the 131 number listed. curious, where did you find the 181 part number reference?

some thing part numbers with 181 prefix are still parts from other vehicles, they must exist with two part numbers in the data, perhaps this is one such part?