www.apfelbeck.nl

Wesayso · Post by **Wesayso** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:10 pm

That's right, we have our own site...

http://www.apfelbeck.nl

Not all pages are ready yet but there is a picture-page with brand new pictures on it and a Guestbook.

More to come soon...

Enjoy,

The Apfelbeck Team

tuna · Post by **tuna** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:37 pm

The site is great!! I got to look at it last night and it is very cool. I'm looking forward to seeing how this cyl head develops. Good luck guys!

Tuna

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:51 pm

WOW, AMAZING!

So, are you guys going to try and duplicate these heads or what?? You said no last time I asked, but has that changed?

Wesayso · Post by **Wesayso** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 4:46 pm

I'll let Roberto answer that one

SuperRSi · Post by **SuperRSi** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:20 pm

Stop wasting time on websites and finish those heads. Then you can build more, make some money and make people happy. Go on now, get movin...

Thanks,

Randy

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 8:38 am

Where's Roberto????LOL

Roberto- we need to talk!

73notch · Post by **73notch** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 1:55 pm

wow, no lifters and no pushrods! awesome. when do you expect to test them on an engine? any info on the engine they are going to go on?

roberto · Post by **roberto** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 4:05 pm

MASSIVE TYPE IV wrote:Where's Roberto????LOL

Roberto- we need to talk!

Things can change in live,

We wil reproduce these heads when it proved it self.

It wil still take a while, we do this in spare time.
In the beginning i didn't thougt to reproduce it but so many people like the heads and ask if its possible.

So keep looking at the website and follow our progress.

greetings and thanks for all the support!!!

By the way Jake are you also visiting the PRI show in indianapolis?
I hope to meet Charles from LN engineering.

Roberto

roberto · Post by **roberto** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 4:14 pm

73notch wrote:wow, no lifters and no pushrods! awesome. when do you expect to test them on an engine? any info on the engine they are going to go on?

We are now bussy building our "dummy"engine to see all parts fit together.
Next step will be building the proto type 2 liter high rev engine.
Than we will use the new molds we reproduce on the cnc machine.
Also the complete head wil be machined cnc, including the inlet and exhaust !!!!
After we casted it.
The heads can be used on any type 4 engine from 2 liter up to what ever you would like to build.
We will build a 2 liter high rev engine a 2.4 liter and two 3 liter engine (one wil be for racing and the other for street use)
This are the testing plans for this moment, but i cant give you a date, sorry.

Greetings Roberto

Wally · Post by **Wally** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 11:17 pm

roberto wrote:We will build a 2 liter high rev engine a 2.4 liter and two 3 liter engine (one wil be for racing and the other for street use)

Greetings Roberto

Well, one of the 3 liters is actually 'only' a 2866cc

Thanks for chiming in Roberto.

CU,
Walter

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 8:24 am

Very cool....

But after reading this and sleeping on it I don't know if I should even go forward any further with my head development. I have a set of prototypes done for my engine but since these are overhead cam they will be far superior and I may never be able to really get anywhere with my heads because of this..

At the point I am at right now I would only lose alot of my time if I halt the process and would not lose any extra money like I will if I go forward with the heads and can't really sell them. At least I'll have a one -off set for my 3.0. I'm just glad this happened now while my options are still open.

I have put well over a year into them at this point and Len has done alot of work as well and I hate to put it all away but at this point it may be the smartest move..

Wally · Post by **Wally** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 10:38 am

MASSIVE TYPE IV wrote:Very cool....

But after reading this and sleeping on it I don't know if I should even go forward any further with my head development. I have a set of prototypes done for my engine but since these are overhead cam they will be far superior and I may never be able to really get anywhere with my heads because of this..

Well, personally - if I were you (..) - I would really not stop everything because of this development yet.
As you know, everything can be made with the right inspiration and skills + opportunity and Roberto has an overdose of all three I can assure you.
The heads themselves are quite special by design, but at the ens of the day, its just a casting...The real skill and ingenuity IMHO is the design and execution of the cam drive. If you think the pics on the site are neat, wait till you see the cam drive system. It will blow you away. I saw the prelimenary shots of that and I am really lost for words.

However, there is also the catch for reproduction purposes. It has loads of R&D sunk into it and even then its quite elaborate to make, even though most parts are/will be CNC programmed and can then 'easily' be reproduced. Still, the cam belt gears, the cams themselves, and lots of other bits will have to be bought from other manufacturors and can really add up. So many extra parts and modifications are neccesary with OHC. Many do not realize this.
Long story short, the total cost may well be way past the cost of your new head development, so stopping just because of this may be a too hasty descision imo.
I really hope he can make large quantaties of everything, cause a large type 4 with these heads would leave everything far behind it and the extreme high revving possibilities would make it sound like nothing else. It would be something quite 'different' to say the least, but we will have to wait if everything works out I'am afraid...
Still, the anticipation may is probably just as good as the real thing will be

Greetings
Walter

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 11:04 am

I know Wally....

I know the capabilities of the heads and know that nothing pushrod driven would stand a chance next to it on the performance scale. My new heads would be simpler to install, but since they are 100% billet and CNC machined they won't be cheap either..

I just don't know if the small market of guys with budgets this big would be able to supply the demand for two sets of heads with so much possibility.

The other end of the spectrum is with R&D. I don't mind doing it at all but its so time consuming and will be so demanding to do with different size engines to find the correct cam profiles like we have for the stock based heads now. It has taken me all this time to refine these cams and the new heads would take even more. I just hate to do it all for nothing.

Perhaps my next move will be to get guaranteed buyers before I go any further. Atleast doing it that way may lead to me atleast breaking even on sales vs. production.

One thing I wonder is if the heads/engine arrangement would fit into a non modified engine bay in a beetle? If it will not that may be the big advantage I would have with my heads because they will, and they will use a TI exhaust system..

Its all too "iffy" to say and its all very expensive if the wrong decision is made on my behalf..

Wally · Post by **Wally** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 11:42 am

Yeah, your point is well taken. I also admire your public candidness (sp?) about your considerations

As to the fitting in a standard engine bay, I believe that Roberto has test fitted a dummy engine in his beetle with just the heads on top of stock type 4 barrels and I _think_ they did fit without any mods. He may have to verify this himself tho. The rocker covers are not done yet, but AFAIK, they will be just covers, nothing on top of that anymore unless he makes s/th extra for stiffness (to 'pair' the two heads on one bank more strongly).

Thanks,
Walter

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:12 pm

Cool...
I knpow that sometimes the cam drives present more of a clearance issue than anything else fitting wise, if its compact enough I'm sure they would fit fine.