Dropping Transmission

Bowman74 · Post by **Bowman74** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:18 am

So I have the dreaded torque converter seal leak on my automatic transmission in a 1974 412 wagon (ATF spewing everywhere from the bell housing). Obviously I need to get that replaced. In my 914 I can drop the transmission and leave the engine in place. Everything is reversed in the 412 (or should I say the right way around). Can I just drop the transmission and leave the engine in place or do I have to drop the whole engine transmission assembly?

Any thing I should be on the lookout for on the 412 while I do this?

I'm definitely dropping the transmission one way or another. While its out I want to clean it up and also pull the heater and clean that up as well. Right now everything is covered in ATF. Not a nice smell when the heater gets going and the heater eventually shuts itself off with the ATF starts burning off; presumably it is getting too hot. Well at least the safety mechanisms are working!

Thanks,

Kevin

MNAirHead · Post by **MNAirHead** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:43 pm

I've done this ONCE...

When an engine is very quick and easy to pull... why not do it in 2 chunks.

Much easier and safer to do.

A tranny/engine combo weighs in over 320# and is bulky as hell.

You'll have to split them anyways.

Some quick and easy engine pull ideas are on my website if you're interested.

Bowman74 · Post by **Bowman74** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:59 pm

So what you are saying is that unlike the 914 I can't just pull the transmission and leave the engine in the car. Curses, I was afraid of that. Of well, a little more work then.

Hey I used to live in Minneapolis unlit late 1999. You might have seen be putting around town in a Yellow strober VW Thing.

Thanks,

Kevin

MGVWfan · Post by **MGVWfan** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:39 pm

I've got the engine and trans out now on the Nomad (my '73 412 Variant), and I agree, pulling the engine, then the trans is the best way to drop them.

I'd recommend replacing BOTH of the pinionshaft seals while you've got the tranny out. These seals keep the brown nasty EP lube in the diff section from leaking into the red ATF in the gear section, causing the whole thing to die a horrible death. Read other posts on this forum for details. Replace the TC seal, the two pinionshaft seals, and the two flanged shaft oil seals, and you've got all the seals in the AT replaced.

Note that to replace the pinionshaft seals, you'll have to remove the differential section (then you can replace the seal on the housing), and disassemble it (then you can replace the other seal inside the differential assembly). As long as you count the turns on the two differential bearing rings and the pinion ring as you remove them, you can reassemble the differential section to the same preload and position specs as you found, and shouldn't have trouble with the diff section.

I got a copy of the Bentley (brown cover) manual for the Type 3 (same automatic transmission), it's Bentley Stock # VWSQ, VWoA P/N LPV 997 383, ISBN 0-8376-0057-X, it has great exploded views of the trans, and also has complete overhaul info.

After looking at the Bentley manual, I decided that a complete friction lining replacement along with a re-seal wouldn't be that big a deal, so I'm doing the whole thing (hey, it's got at least 100Kmi on it, so it's time I think). If you need parts, Makco in Dallas has the seal kits, and found all the friction linings for me. Not that I'm advertising for them, but it's rare to find a place that has T4 auto trans parts.

Here's a link to Makco:

http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/merch ... ry_Code=VW

The auto in question is the "003", used in the Type 3 and Type 4 VW's, and some Audis (so I understand).

There are other posts on this forum with the same info, take a look and you'll find other good info, but this is what I'm doing, I figured I'd pass it along.

Cheers!

MNAirHead · Post by **MNAirHead** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:02 pm

It's less work to pull the engine....

You don't have to struggle the entire power train at once.

I'd be afraid of throwing a back out and/or messing up the tranny input shaft.

To fix your issues, you'll have to split the tranny and engine anyways. Why not reduce the mass and weight you're playing with.

T.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:04 pm

MGVWfan wrote:There are other posts on this forum with the same info, take a look and you'll find other good info, but this is what I'm doing, I figured I'd pass it along.

Cheers!

Thanks man, you're the best!

Thanks,

Kevin

Bowman74 · Post by **Bowman74** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:05 pm

Will I ever remember to log in before posting?

Thanks,

Kevin

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:42 pm

Yes, you can pull just the tranny, but like others are noting...its easier just to pull the whole package. You will need to remove plug wires and dizzy cap...plus intake boots, heater pipes and fuel hoses, go ahead and take out the torque converter to flex plate bolts. If you have sedan, pull off the oil filler funnel. CV joints, ground strap, heater cables, acel cable, disconnect battery, remove shift cable...mark it first in park, take out air cleaner, intake boot, bellows and plastic funnel. disconnect heater blower ground wire, all wires from coil and the three wires to the alternator from the regulator. Pull the long single wire from the starter. remove the plug from the brain....and stuff the cord back through the hole with the rubber bung (sedans)....wagons may be harder to d...but it can be done. Its better than disconnectiong everything. Pull the two wires (white) that goes in to the FI harness...from the relays over on the left side of the engine compartment. Remove the 4 horizontal bolts at the end of the rear hanger. From under the car with a 3' extension, ratchet and 13mm socket, remove the verticla bolts at each end of the hanger....catch and count the shims underneath. This way the whole hanger assembly comes out with the driveline so you don't have to fight around it.
Put the jack underneath...remove the last two nuts on the vertical studs at the end of the hanger....the whole pile drops out. Ray

ubercrap · Post by **ubercrap** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:01 pm

Dang Ray, how long does it take you to pull one of these motors, you make it sound like it would only take 5 minutes...

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:52 pm

I can do it in an hour by myself...with two floor jacks and some blocks. I learn from my mistakes though....I once pulled a drivetrain package from a 411 wagon...three times in one weekend...because I forgot to do things

. But I only admitted to twice.

Ray

vwbill · Post by **vwbill** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:17 pm

Hey, sorry you got the project a coming! I think i would only do the tranny alone if I had access to a lift and tranny stands!! Too much heavy stuff to deal with and you end up just spending the time in frustration to get stuff out and in! Then you can clean alot easier and check mounts as you go! Hey we all know why you trashed the seal!
You were doing too many burn outs at the traffic lights when you dont need too with a 411/412,lololol!!! Take lots of pics! Please!! thxbill

DeathBus · Post by **DeathBus** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:24 am

raygreenwood wrote:I can do it in an hour by myself...with two floor jacks and some blocks. I learn from my mistakes though....I once pulled a drivetrain package from a 411 wagon...three times in one weekend...because I forgot to do things . But I only admitted to twice. Ray

Vans are even easier! the hardest is undoing the CV BOLTS (ARGGGGH I HATE THEM!!!) I can yank a whole type 4 Van drive train in about 20 minutes. If I am just pulling the engine I go ahead and yank the heater boxes and shroad off before pulling the engine, just easier for me that way. I take the mounting crossbar itself off and leave its mounting brackets affixed to the vehicle (aligning those things are a pain). I have yet to pull a 412 engine. Gonna happen soon though.

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:35 am

Yep...the CV's are ugly, but...I have caps to cover the neds. I use a 1/4" breaker bar and ratchet with a 1/4 to 3/8" adapter to crack them loose...then air ratchet them off. I keep the splines in teh CV bolts rligiously clean.

By the way....the auto boxes require new seals every 7 years or 70k. If the converter seal is shot...the transfer case to diff seal is very close to it.
Trust me...there will no warning when it fails....just scrap metal. Its only an hour or so of work to totally put new seals on the tranny. The seal will always fail.

Another thing that wears out the converter seal...is improper alignment of the driveline package. The book is critical about this. There are 4 adjusting points and 3 measurements to be made. You must have a good tail cone bumper and good center and rear hanger mounts. I will explain more in detail later. I have also posted on this several times. Ray

67 T1 · Post by **67 T1** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:51 pm

Buy the kit from Bulkparts and replace every gasket, seal, everything you can. BTW, mine took a little longer than an hour to rebuild, more like several days.
As was pointed out to me prior to my endeavor, buy the brown Type 3 manual, details what you need to know.

DeathBus · Post by **DeathBus** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:55 pm

67 T1 wrote:Buy the kit from Bulkparts and replace every gasket, seal, everything you can. BTW, mine took a little longer than an hour to rebuild, more like several days.
As was pointed out to me prior to my endeavor, buy the brown Type 3 manual, details what you need to know.

And watch those CV BOLTS!!!!!

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Dropping Transmission

Dropping Transmission

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