gas heater fuel pump serviceability?

germansupplyscott · Post by **germansupplyscott** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:21 pm

i have a bunch of gas heater fuel pumps i am testing on a test bed, basically a gas heater mounted on a bench, we can get a few of them to work, but some do not click, therefroe do not pump.

i wonder if there are any little tricks to try to resuscitate a bad pump?

Boneloader · Post by **Boneloader** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 6:51 pm

I had good luck replacing the bad pump on my gas heater with an aftermarket "automotive" type from NAPA... although I found I needed the "high pressure" type (my local dealer had 2 types--high or low pressure).

~Troy

germansupplyscott · Post by **germansupplyscott** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:10 pm

troy,

are you saying you have replaced the gas heater metering pump with a generic electric fuel pump? correct me if i am wrong, but this doesn't sound right to me.

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:30 pm

Here is something to try. Go to a car with CIS Lambda in the Junkyard. Get the freqency valve from it. That is an electronic fuel injector with a nozzel that is screwed into a braided SS fuel line. They rae color and part number coded and have several GPH flow rates. Yes, theye are probably designed to flow much more than what the heater needs.......but......that is at between 25 and 50 psi.

. So...feed it with a facet and a regulator. Run the ss line to the inlet on the heater. Then connect the standard heater fuel pump wires to the injector. It should fire....just like the original pump....once every 33 revs. Adjust the regulator on the facet to give the correct fuel volume. It should be very low. I have not tried this yet. Ray

MGVWfan · Post by **MGVWfan** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:51 pm

With my small experience base (one), I found that fuel gum was what kept the pump from clicking. I squirted carb cleaner in the inlet, took the discharge fitting (the one with the locknut) off, and squirted carb cleaner in the pump, and in the check valve in the discharge fitting, then reassembled it, and pulsed it while providing a few psi of air pressure in the inlet. After a few cycles of adding carb cleaner and pulsing, it finally started clicking. To adjust the pump, get a small graduated cylinder or something you trust that can measure 5-20 cc of fluid. Plumb the pump up so you can draw in something similar to gasoline (I used Varsol), allow 5 cc to flow through, then measure how much you get in 60 seconds. It should pump between 9 and 10 cc in 60 seconds. Adjust the pump by screwing the discharge fitting in (less stroke = less output), or out (more stroke = more output). I also found there was a maximum stroke, when the fitting was screwed out too far, the plunger siezed up and took a nudge to unstick (or a whack on the side of the pump with a screwdriver handle). I purged the pump of Varsol, then fed a few drops of oil in the inlet to keep the pump lubricated at start-up (and displace any remainig Varsol). It should prime and feed OK with that little bit of oil on the plunger. I'll find out tomorrow...I just got the Eber back in the Nomad tonight!

Hey Boneloader...more info on the "standard" pump, please! Do you get smoking, or anything abnormal from the Eber? More details kind sir!

Here are my thoughts on using a "standard" electric fuel pump on an Eber. If you feed one of those at 100% duty cycle with 12V, it'll put out something like a half pint or maybe a pint a minute (far in excess of the Eber's needs), but the duty cycle of the Eber's pump feed is something like 10% or less, so the "standard" pump will put out much less than normal if hooked to the Eber's switch contacts. The "standard" pump probably doesn't "lock out" with no power on it like the Eber pump does (I have a spare "standard" pump, maybe I'll do a test and see if it flows fuel if it's pressurized at the inlet when it's de-energized), and adjusting fuel flow is not possible, either...although a needle valve hooked up to bypass fuel around the pump used to adjust flow might work.

germansupplyscott · Post by **germansupplyscott** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:54 pm

ray,

it sounds workable from a fuel flow point of view, but how do you picture plumbing the injector into the combustion chamber?

lane,

i will try your technique, it sounds very promsing. i have at least 4 stuck pumps to test it out on!

MGVWfan · Post by **MGVWfan** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 8:08 pm

Once again, you amaze me Ray with your resourcefulness

...yes, a Lambda-equipped K-Jet frequency valve, that should function as a metering valve and heater-off fuel lockout, too. I've been reading a book on Bosch FI, and it's got some details on that valve. It's got two hose/banjo fittings on it, so hooking it up should be no problem. A Facet or SU or Carter/Airtex 8016 FLAPS pump will work, and either a small regulator or a bypass needle valve should work to adjust flow rates.Next time I'm at the junkyard, I'll pull a few of those, I saw 10-12 WCVWs, Volvos, and BMWs with that feedback K-Jet FI last time I was there.

Boneloader · Post by **Boneloader** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 9:36 pm

MGVWfan wrote:Hey Boneloader...more info on the "standard" pump, please! Do you get smoking, or anything abnormal from the Eber? More details kind sir!

My heater had a "mechanical" pump on it, connected to the output shaft of one of the blowers... maybe not the same heater you guys are referring to? Anyway, it wouldn't pump anything... so I put a "low pressure" pump on it--and it wasn't enough for the heater. I went back and got a "high pressure" pump, and it worked great. The pump I got looked like this:

These are the details I could find out about the pump I used:
p/n 40106 - 12V Neg. Ground, 4-6 PSI Max., 30 GPH. mfg for NAPA by FACET

I didn't use the heater very much... found a leak in the exhaust that was quickly repaired... but by then I was kinda scared of the thing. I mustly used it just to clean off the windows on my baja, then turned it off before driving it to work. If I decide to go back to a gas heater, I think I will buy something new.

~Troy

Bowman74 · Post by **Bowman74** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:13 am

punkinfair wrote:i have a bunch of gas heater fuel pumps i am testing on a test bed, basically a gas heater mounted on a bench, we can get a few of them to work, but some do not click, therefroe do not pump.

i wonder if there are any little tricks to try to resuscitate a bad pump?

Most of these pumps are just seized. I have had good luck with a few love taps form the attitude adjuster (a rubber mallet). That fixed mine in no time. I spoke with Mike Basso of things unlimited and that is the same thing he does with old BN-4 pumps. He stated that it works surprisingly often.

Thanks,

Kevin

MGVWfan · Post by **MGVWfan** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:14 pm

Mr. Loader...is the heater you're talking about a 411/412-standard Eberspaecher BA4 (the flat thing that has four air inlets/outlets)? Yours sounds more like another type...all the 411/412 heaters I've seen (a total of four

) use a little electric metering pump located remotely from the heater. Interesting...

Boneloader · Post by **Boneloader** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:22 pm

Nope, mines not that sophisticated. I didn't realize there were so many different types of heaters.

Anybody got a picture of one?

vwbill · Post by **vwbill** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:21 pm

I've used that pump before on a van along with one of those AC/Delco(single wire)ones that looks like a fuel filter but I had to put a regulator on it. That must be nice to get that baby work though! I love that mallet fix; sounds like the same fix they use on power window motors or per the instructions slam door real hard,lol! Bill

MGVWfan · Post by **MGVWfan** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:06 pm

Here's a link to a pic of an Eberspaecher BA4 from my '73 412...

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_ ... _id=103137

The fuel pump is external, what you see is the heat exchanger and burner, the ignition coil, the combustion air blower (with fuel pump and ignition breaker points), and the glow/spark plug.

Boneloader · Post by **Boneloader** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:10 pm

Heeeey, that's niiiiice!

Mine looks like a beer keg compared to that one. Looks like it would tuck up under a beetle real nice. Are they easy to work on?

~Troy

vwbill · Post by **vwbill** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:02 pm

Does it look like this beetle heater on ebay??
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... AMEWA%3AIT
bill

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gas heater fuel pump serviceability?

gas heater fuel pump serviceability?

Re: gas heater fuel pump serviceability?

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