Shoptalkforums.com

Hey Guys, just a question about ring seating? Someone was saying that new car jugs have steel sleeves and dont need to seat the rings? Is seating the process of the rings wearing to match the jugs? Also, has anyone tried the synthetic castrol oil? Someone was saying it actually gets into the metal and not just a film coating? bill

Interesting..........the oil thing. I have no idea, but am interested in knowing.

I think I'll have to post this one to another forums. I just put in one qt of synthetic and then regular since the syn. is bucks! Cant hurt for now and they are compatable. bill

vwbill wrote:Hey Guys, just a question about ring seating? Someone was saying that new car jugs have steel sleeves and dont need to seat the rings? Is seating the process of the rings wearing to match the jugs? Also, has anyone tried the synthetic castrol oil? Someone was saying it actually gets into the metal and not just a film coating? bill

It you are doing and engine rebuild, I'd read "Boston" Bob Donald's article "So you have a fresh engine and want it to last". He is a well known and reputable engine builder in the North East US.

http://www.bostonengine.com/articles/fresh.html

One other thing Bob now recommends is to vary the engine RPM for the first 20 minutes as well as keep it over 1500 RPM. Don't drive it!!!

Thanks,

Kevin

When I run in my engines I run them in a 2k rpm for 20 minutes. I dont use synthetic oils, they are known for not cooperating real well with the rubber in the gaskets used on ACVW's. After running the engine, I change the oil and filter, check and adjust my valves crank the engine and let idle, check timing at idle, then at full advance. Take the vehicle for a drive as I am driving I rev the engine to high rpms and then let off the peddle, this helps the rings seat also. I drive the vehicle for 400 miles, perferably on a long trip through back roads, change the oil and filter again, check valves etc. Drive until I reach 1000 miles, never really hard reving it, change oil, filter check valves, drive for another 500 miles, do it again, then drive for 1500 miles, change the oil,filter check valves, your rings should be seated and engine broken in.

In general, its not a great idea to use synthetic on break-in. For lifter sake...might be a good thing. But for ring seating, the idea is to allow the rings to wear to fit the shape of the walls..so they seal. Some of the synthetics have such a good deal less fricton...they may make it hard to seat rings. Also, since you are tossing it out in a half hour and putting in fresh oil....thats mighty spensive. Then changing again in 300-500 miles.

As far as seals.....well....I don't know. Some leakage does occour. In the past....long ago with synthetics, I had horrible leakage. A lot has to do with the design of the seal and its tolerance to the part it rides on, and a lot has to do with the material. These days, most of the seal compounds...and sealing compounds especially....are very good with synthetics.
But some of the seals we use...like in gear boxes side seals for example, are just copies of the original made from the same material or worse...in Brazil....so those I don't trust.
If you are using excellent new sealer to seal your engines...most especially on moving joints like the PR tubes....you should have no probs. The rear main seal, if it is the black and red Viton/Buna seal....it should be no problem. If by chance you have a vintage red seal...no problem....thats high temp silicone. Tha is usually the tropical seal. The straight black seal....hmmmm.

Break in speed should be aboit 2o00-3000 rpm for twenty to thirty minutes. No variation. This is for the cam. Then get it out on the road after checking everything. A lot has been said about long accelerations...then long decelerations to load the rings in both direction. Makes sense. Ray

I use the all HALLOW Permatex 3m aircraft sealant on all my case joining surfaces, on the pushrod tubes I have used sealant and not used sealant with good results both ways. i also use a NAPA thread sealant with Teflon on all the trough bolt threads. the hardest problem i have yet to solve are valve guides, i have gotten some heads from 2 different rebuilders and both times i get some leakage. I have a friend who has sent his 914 heads out to a well known rebuilder in Cali, to be compleyely rebuilt, i will keep you posted on what happens.

Valve guide leakage ? They are actually not supposed to run seals.....at least not in this country. I have seen a few ...questionable...technicle books that list valve stem seals for this car. Never had a problem without them. But...is your get blow by....there is a high possibility that the tolerances were not set up correctly. Most American rebuilders can't fathom the valve to guide tolerances.....because all of the books don't give a dial bore tolerance. They give a rock tolerance with dial indicator at half lift....which is just as accurate if done properly. Ray

raygreenwood wrote:Valve guide leakage ? They are actually not supposed to run seals.....at least not in this country. I have seen a few ...questionable...technicle books that list valve stem seals for this car. Never had a problem without them. But...is your get blow by....there is a high possibility that the tolerances were not set up correctly. Most American rebuilders can't fathom the valve to guide tolerances.....because all of the books don't give a dial bore tolerance. They give a rock tolerance with dial indicator at half lift....which is just as accurate if done properly. Ray

Sorry I was vague on that, I was holding a squirming 2 year old while typing it!

I didnt mean the valves had seals. just the fact that as you say they cant do the tollerences correctly, If I had an oven set up for powder coating I might try heating my own heads and freezing my guides myself. But that still would not take care of the dreaded valve seat problem.

Do you mean that you are getting seapage between valve and seat? Like when the guides are installed...not perpendicular to the seats and then the valves not cut in to the seats properly? Ray

raygreenwood wrote:Do you mean that you are getting seapage between valve and seat? Like when the guides are installed...not perpendicular to the seats and then the valves not cut in to the seats properly? Ray

exactly