Yellow 412 2door on the ebayer again.
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ubercrap
- Posts: 1394
- Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:00 pm
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MGVWfan
- Posts: 825
- Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:23 pm
Note the engine bay picture...it's the only time I've ever seen the decel valve and vacuum advance delay valve installed in a real vehicle. Good one for future reference.
Lane
73 VW 412 (the Nomad, dropped valve seat land now, argh!)
67 MGB (Abingdon's Finest)
76 Plymouth Duster /6 (runs like a top)
99 New Beetle 2.0 (never gives any trouble)
04 Golf TDI (45 MPG)
09 JSW (love it, love it, love it!)
73 VW 412 (the Nomad, dropped valve seat land now, argh!)
67 MGB (Abingdon's Finest)
76 Plymouth Duster /6 (runs like a top)
99 New Beetle 2.0 (never gives any trouble)
04 Golf TDI (45 MPG)
09 JSW (love it, love it, love it!)
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MACAnimal
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:06 am
Too bad, with a few exceptions , California is Type 4 hating central. That car is very nice, I would love to own it, but I've got a snowball's chance in hell. He's never gonna sell it out there, though, and if somebody buys it, they will probably just destroy it for fun.
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I'm not sure if you're serious, Ubercrap, about CA being "Type 4 hating central." I see no reason an enthusiast wouldn't buy it, California resident or not. There's plenty of Japanese econoboxes out there for kids to wreck. I was under the impression that CA was VW heaven (especially Southern CA) as evidenced by the location of all types of VW's for sale in TheSamba and the VW specialty and supply sources.
Am I missing something?
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I'm not sure if you're serious, Ubercrap, about CA being "Type 4 hating central." I see no reason an enthusiast wouldn't buy it, California resident or not. There's plenty of Japanese econoboxes out there for kids to wreck. I was under the impression that CA was VW heaven (especially Southern CA) as evidenced by the location of all types of VW's for sale in TheSamba and the VW specialty and supply sources.
Am I missing something?
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Guest
That was actually also my expectation when we chose (1997) to relocate to CA. Then I found out that it is a Bug & Bus heaven. Anything else that is more complicated or sofisticated is shunned and demonized. I actually wanted a type 4 right off the bat, but everybody I knew in clubs or FLAPS, talked me out of it; Oh, what do you want with a looser, a gremlin like this. So, I ended up getting into type 3's. I figured being 1 off aint bad. With time I understood the reasons behind this position. Those guys are , by and large, either teenagers who wanna tinker with simple stuff, slam it and chrome it, or older guys who want to have it as a father & sun slamming/tinkering project. Anything more advanced than that had no place in their intellect. having lived in a couple of other states and countries, I noticed that the intellect & depth of thought are not high on the traits of souther california. Just a generalized observation, I am sure there are also many geniuses around, but few and far in between. I think its the smog effect 
No offense intended to so cal listees, if they are here, they are the exception to the rule.
No offense intended to so cal listees, if they are here, they are the exception to the rule.-
Longbeach412
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 6:34 am
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ubercrap
- Posts: 1394
- Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:00 pm
I was kind of joking, but there was some seriousness to it. That car has been for sale for a long time, and listed on ebay many times. Several other desirable Type 4's have come up for sale in CA on ebay and received no bids. Awhile back, somebody tried to give a nice one away in Cal and had more trouble getting somebody to take it for free than they had selling any other cars in the past. I guess since early cars are so plentiful in good condition there nobody cares about anything after '67? California VW people seem reluctant to give up their Cal Look/ Hot Rod roots while the rest of the world has moved on to include the German/Euro Look in the scene among other things, and even the formerly shunned late model air cooled cars have come into their own. Just go to thesamba.com, you'll see what I mean about the vitriolic Type 4 hatred. Somebody there destroyed a perfectly good 411 by crashing it into trees and jumping it like a dune buggy for the purpose of destroying it. People on the samba have told me that everybody there considers Type 4's rolling junk and a complete joke. Look at one of the Type 4's for sale on the samba in CA, they refer to it as a "fool injected car." I'm not trying to be mean, and some of my family lives in Southern California and I love them and love visiting them, but I think that California is falling seriously behind in many ways.
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11912
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
Its not just california. Its everywhere. The type 3 also suffers some of this. Most people these days are into simply what looks cool to everyone around them. Customization and slapping in cheap engines is teh word of the day. The VW scene...in general in my opinion....is about the lamest its been in decades.
That being said...there is a large struggleing movement for decent restoration and not cutting things up...just cause they are cheap and look trick. Its slowly getting better.
The biggest problem with 411/412 in most ACVW eyes....is the fact that they assume that four speeds were not available. 90% of the people who want an old VW to work on.....think automatics were undependable and slow. Thats actually not true on these vehicles....when the yare properly tuned and cared for. This.....and the unavailability of cheap aftermarket parts to "shine" these things up.
As I noted for a while...type 3's also wallowed on the "sh*t" list.
As people in the mid to late 80's started getting bored with what they were tricking out for the magazines.....they started lowering and chopping type 3's. The only reason type 3's have any cache and following right now....or demand...is because 90% of all people who want a type 3.....ONLY want it to slam it down....put fat tires on.....or drag with.....so tyey can look good. For the most part...looking on the type 3 forum, except a few notable people like Tom Notch....and others....most of the people there are just imterested in airbags and how low it can get.
Most of the people who are looking for an ACVW have no desire to do anything really difficult in getting their car to the street. That especially includes fuel injection. The type 3 people have the same problem with fuel injection as anyone else.....if they have to learn how to work on it....they won't.
Thats also why so many people are seen flocking to aftermarket EFI. because....they erroneously conclude that they can then be "injection literate".....simply by playing games with what they are familiar with.....that being the keyboard of the computer. They think there is nothing to learn. Its easy to get any car to just run ok on FI. Its takes a bit more knowledge of hwats happening and why...to really tune it for factory smooth transitions and the best HP it can produce under it scurrent configuration.
If people were willing to actually learn something these day...they would be surprised at what they can make sevn this OLD equipment do.
Take for instance...MGVWfan. After you get proper pressure adjusting on your autobox done....and slaved to a good engine....you will be stunned at just how decent these drive....and how reasonably quick they can be...esepecially when you learn the ins and outs of when to use the Kick-down solenoid for best effect.
. End of Rant. Ray
That being said...there is a large struggleing movement for decent restoration and not cutting things up...just cause they are cheap and look trick. Its slowly getting better.
The biggest problem with 411/412 in most ACVW eyes....is the fact that they assume that four speeds were not available. 90% of the people who want an old VW to work on.....think automatics were undependable and slow. Thats actually not true on these vehicles....when the yare properly tuned and cared for. This.....and the unavailability of cheap aftermarket parts to "shine" these things up.
As I noted for a while...type 3's also wallowed on the "sh*t" list.
As people in the mid to late 80's started getting bored with what they were tricking out for the magazines.....they started lowering and chopping type 3's. The only reason type 3's have any cache and following right now....or demand...is because 90% of all people who want a type 3.....ONLY want it to slam it down....put fat tires on.....or drag with.....so tyey can look good. For the most part...looking on the type 3 forum, except a few notable people like Tom Notch....and others....most of the people there are just imterested in airbags and how low it can get.
Most of the people who are looking for an ACVW have no desire to do anything really difficult in getting their car to the street. That especially includes fuel injection. The type 3 people have the same problem with fuel injection as anyone else.....if they have to learn how to work on it....they won't.
Thats also why so many people are seen flocking to aftermarket EFI. because....they erroneously conclude that they can then be "injection literate".....simply by playing games with what they are familiar with.....that being the keyboard of the computer. They think there is nothing to learn. Its easy to get any car to just run ok on FI. Its takes a bit more knowledge of hwats happening and why...to really tune it for factory smooth transitions and the best HP it can produce under it scurrent configuration.
If people were willing to actually learn something these day...they would be surprised at what they can make sevn this OLD equipment do.
Take for instance...MGVWfan. After you get proper pressure adjusting on your autobox done....and slaved to a good engine....you will be stunned at just how decent these drive....and how reasonably quick they can be...esepecially when you learn the ins and outs of when to use the Kick-down solenoid for best effect.
. End of Rant. Ray-
MGVWfan
- Posts: 825
- Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:23 pm
All I needed to know was the factory claim of 96% efficiency, and what you guys have been saying, that the auto boxes are not bad. It tells me the basic drivetrain was well thought out, and with some care in rebuilding, even 80 hp should move that light (relatively speaking) 412 around quite nicely.
What you guys are ranting about is something I've noticed with my teenagers. When I was in high school, mid 70's, there was still a group of kids that worked on cars for fun, say 10% of the total. Then there was a group of kids that would work on their car when they had to, say 50% of total in my school. Then there was the "racer" crowd, say 5% of total. Nowadays, those figures are less than half where we live. Part of it is lawn nazis that rat out anyone that has a car in the driveway under repair for more than a few days (society is becoming more negative towards folks who use their hands as well as their heads), part of it is peer pressure (why spend all the time working on an old car when you can buy a Mustwang and bolt on goofy wheels and stuff?), and part is that you can't work on modern cars really, not with emission inspections, and all the proprietary computer interfaces the OEM's use. The carb was bad for emissions and driveability, and D-Jet required some brains to work on it, but at least they could be worked on, and in fact, required some level of regular maintainance to keep them going. That's why we're growing a mechanically disinclined generation. So, instead of the hard work of setting up a T4 mill to specs, or overhauling a 003 AT to specs, they'd rather slap some bolt-on lowering stuff or pneumatic suspension bits, or funny wheels, and impress their friends. It's tough work getting an engine or tranny done right, especially when you learn while doing it yourself.
There is hope, though. One of my oldest's friends has a T3, and the rest think it's really cool. My oldest also begged to borrow my '67 MGB to take a date to the prom (really, she begged him...), and everytime he drives it, he gets complements from the other kids. My daughter is really looking forward to the '76 Duster getting done, even though it's a /6 and not a 340, because she likes it, and her friends think it's cool.
What you guys are ranting about is something I've noticed with my teenagers. When I was in high school, mid 70's, there was still a group of kids that worked on cars for fun, say 10% of the total. Then there was a group of kids that would work on their car when they had to, say 50% of total in my school. Then there was the "racer" crowd, say 5% of total. Nowadays, those figures are less than half where we live. Part of it is lawn nazis that rat out anyone that has a car in the driveway under repair for more than a few days (society is becoming more negative towards folks who use their hands as well as their heads), part of it is peer pressure (why spend all the time working on an old car when you can buy a Mustwang and bolt on goofy wheels and stuff?), and part is that you can't work on modern cars really, not with emission inspections, and all the proprietary computer interfaces the OEM's use. The carb was bad for emissions and driveability, and D-Jet required some brains to work on it, but at least they could be worked on, and in fact, required some level of regular maintainance to keep them going. That's why we're growing a mechanically disinclined generation. So, instead of the hard work of setting up a T4 mill to specs, or overhauling a 003 AT to specs, they'd rather slap some bolt-on lowering stuff or pneumatic suspension bits, or funny wheels, and impress their friends. It's tough work getting an engine or tranny done right, especially when you learn while doing it yourself.
There is hope, though. One of my oldest's friends has a T3, and the rest think it's really cool. My oldest also begged to borrow my '67 MGB to take a date to the prom (really, she begged him...), and everytime he drives it, he gets complements from the other kids. My daughter is really looking forward to the '76 Duster getting done, even though it's a /6 and not a 340, because she likes it, and her friends think it's cool.
Lane
73 VW 412 (the Nomad, dropped valve seat land now, argh!)
67 MGB (Abingdon's Finest)
76 Plymouth Duster /6 (runs like a top)
99 New Beetle 2.0 (never gives any trouble)
04 Golf TDI (45 MPG)
09 JSW (love it, love it, love it!)
73 VW 412 (the Nomad, dropped valve seat land now, argh!)
67 MGB (Abingdon's Finest)
76 Plymouth Duster /6 (runs like a top)
99 New Beetle 2.0 (never gives any trouble)
04 Golf TDI (45 MPG)
09 JSW (love it, love it, love it!)
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MACAnimal
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:06 am
If some of you have seen this car on ebay several times before (I haven't), what do you think the problem is? I emailed him and asked the total mileage and, as yet, have not heard from him.
As far as the California VW scene: I can't really comment as I've been out of touch (VW wise) for over 20 years. The "Cal Look" was just coming into it's own then -- I don't even know what the "Euro Look" is. But it's hard to imagine people here (or anywhere -- including TheSamba fourms) are of just one mind: ie: anti-Type 4. People who restore cars have to be committed (read: PASSIONATE) about their cars or they don't succeed. And passionate people are often chauvinistic.
BTW: What's "slamming" (I know it's probably a dumb question, but, like I said, I've been out of it for a long time.) As an old airline pilot, "slamming" anything makes me wince!!
As far as the California VW scene: I can't really comment as I've been out of touch (VW wise) for over 20 years. The "Cal Look" was just coming into it's own then -- I don't even know what the "Euro Look" is. But it's hard to imagine people here (or anywhere -- including TheSamba fourms) are of just one mind: ie: anti-Type 4. People who restore cars have to be committed (read: PASSIONATE) about their cars or they don't succeed. And passionate people are often chauvinistic.
BTW: What's "slamming" (I know it's probably a dumb question, but, like I said, I've been out of it for a long time.) As an old airline pilot, "slamming" anything makes me wince!!
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MGVWfan
- Posts: 825
- Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:23 pm
Old pilot wisdom...pull back on stick, the houses get smaller, push on stick, houses get bigger, keep it back, houses get smaller then bigger then the pilot gets smaller! That's the "slamming" you guys try to avoid, eh?
Slamming (around here at least) is extreme lowering, picture lowriders of the 80's.
Slamming (around here at least) is extreme lowering, picture lowriders of the 80's.
Lane
73 VW 412 (the Nomad, dropped valve seat land now, argh!)
67 MGB (Abingdon's Finest)
76 Plymouth Duster /6 (runs like a top)
99 New Beetle 2.0 (never gives any trouble)
04 Golf TDI (45 MPG)
09 JSW (love it, love it, love it!)
73 VW 412 (the Nomad, dropped valve seat land now, argh!)
67 MGB (Abingdon's Finest)
76 Plymouth Duster /6 (runs like a top)
99 New Beetle 2.0 (never gives any trouble)
04 Golf TDI (45 MPG)
09 JSW (love it, love it, love it!)
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Longbeach412
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 6:34 am
I do not think that there is necessarily a problem with the car, it is just there is very little interest in that type of vws as discussed here. As mentioned earlier, not too long ago, a pretty decent 411, I think, was offered for free on the samba for a good while with no takers. On the subject of automatic trannys, we took the 412 today on her maiden voyage to Venice Beach, a 40 mile trip on the freeway. Was my first ever experience with a type 4 motor and an auto tranny......Wow!....as crude as the car still is.......the power and the smooth shifting, the accerleration,....very impressive. Stayed at 60m/h for a while then Brought her gradually up to 70....and she ran steady and stable, but the steering and the front suspension feel definitly imprecise and floaty so thats as fast as I'd ever go with her till I have the whole front redone. Got a couple of honks from vanagons and busses too 
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ubercrap
- Posts: 1394
- Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:00 pm
I don't think there is anything really wrong with the car at all, it looks very nice. It would take just a little bit of work on the interior and engine lid and you would have a very nice original car. I believe this guy knows his Type 4's and has a number of them. Anyway, yes "slamming" is lowering car. Often, I think it can specifically refer a lowered stance where the car sits lower in the front than the rear. I love the look of lowered vehicles, but it can be taken to silly levels. I know, contrary to popular belief, it can hurt handling, and I accept the tradeoffs. The Euro Look/German look usually involves modification of a late model air cooled VW (often a Super Beetle) that utilizes technology and style from more modern cars, often later model Porsches and emphasizes handling and performance. Many people aim to make their modifications look like something that might have come from a factory- very "integrated" - looks like it belongs. People often run 16"+ late Porsche factory wheels, big disc brakes all around, upgraded performance suspension parts, dechromed/blacked out trim, Type IV or Porsche 6 engine transplants, roll cages, modern interior components like seats, instruments, and steering wheels, upgraded lighting, etc...MACAnimal wrote:If some of you have seen this car on ebay several times before (I haven't), what do you think the problem is? I emailed him and asked the total mileage and, as yet, have not heard from him.
As far as the California VW scene: I can't really comment as I've been out of touch (VW wise) for over 20 years. The "Cal Look" was just coming into it's own then -- I don't even know what the "Euro Look" is. But it's hard to imagine people here (or anywhere -- including TheSamba fourms) are of just one mind: ie: anti-Type 4. People who restore cars have to be committed (read: PASSIONATE) about their cars or they don't succeed. And passionate people are often chauvinistic.
BTW: What's "slamming" (I know it's probably a dumb question, but, like I said, I've been out of it for a long time.) As an old airline pilot, "slamming" anything makes me wince!!