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If you didn't read my intro, I'm looking for a 411 wagon with 4 speed. I spent hundreds of happy hours flying a CESSNA 411 which (surprise, surprise) is considered a bastard stepchild of General Aviation. So I sort of have a twisted attachment to that number.
That said, I recall reading (lurking) on this forum that the 412 is quieter -- both engine and wind noise -- than the 411. Can anyone confirm that? It seems the 412s are more plentyful, at least in N. America......

Which brings me to my second question: The only 411 (4-speed) wagon I've found so far is in France. Should I be looking in Europe (Germany)?

Thanks in advance, guys....................---Dave

AFAIK, VWoA only marketed the 4-speed manual tranny in the 2-door in both 411 (1971-1972) and 412 (1973-1974) versions. The 412s are more abundant because more were sold (if I remember the production figures correctly). The wagons seem to be the most abundant amongst the 412s, not sure about the 411s (never seen a 411 in the flesh, just 412s!). If you want a manual 411 wagon, it can be done (as you note, buy in Europe, for one, or strip a US-spec 2-door donor of its trans and ancillaries and transplant in a US-spec 411 wagon). Note that bringing any car from Europe to the US can be a real nightmare with FMVSS, EPA, DOT, etc. rules.

hi, my frend , go to see type4 org. he have 2 -411 manual trs. wagon for sale ,,,,albert

Did you see my post Wagen in tenn on ebayer? It looked like a maybe a good project car?? It didnt meet the reserve price?? Maybe its still out there? I dont know what condition you want to start at!! Bill

Two-door 411s and/or 411s with standard shift may have been a Canada-only thing. The US brochures for the 411 make no mention of 4-speeds or 2-doors. (I wouldn't totally give up on the American market, but Europe may be the better bet.)

Over the last year or so, I've seen most every possiblity of bodystyle and transaxle combo for sale, except for 2dr. sedan converted to auto. You can convert an auto car to manual easily, there are two 4 spd.'s for sale on thesamba.com right now, in fact.

There is nothing unique to any of the bodies. You can convert an auto to a manual or vica-versa. The holes and mount points for everything are already there.
On this continent, the waogons and four doors were all autos. I have no idea if they offered 2 doors for actual dealer sale, but there were more than a few (though few indeed). I happen to know that the one I have (2 door four speed) was a tourist import from Germany, through Norway, bought by a school teacher in Frankfurt and then sold to an American air force officer who brought it back.
I have seen most of ten other 2 doors. Most of them had original American dealer documents. But...I would bet that many of those were ordered at the dealer and picked up by teh owners and imported as tourist spec vehicles.

There is no difference between the 411 and 412 in engine noise. There may be a slight amount less wind noise on teh 412 due to cross winds. Ray

allo oasis , your point is appx.exact , during the year 70 for the 411-412 the 2 doors fast-back was not sale here , only in usa and europe , and for the 4 doors , and wagon , that was at your choyce , auto, or manual, auto. come with more équipment M. CODE , mdel, L,,, AND LS for more équipment , but for to find today a nice 411-412 in C.D.N. they are very rare , appx. 20 for all the canada , the rust and poor mécanitian , includ vw , he never see the injection systhem , for me my chance , i am électrotecnician , with my first 411-71 and my 412-74 the injection job on my car was for me , today that is same thing with my 412 -73 wagon , but , the 412 is very nice good car , wend my brother ded in 77 i do fast ride with my 412 -4 doors autom. with 2 fat whoman over 200 pound and 2 smal person 150 each and i do 400miles in 4 hrs no stop , wat car can do that today ??? my audi 200 turbo not sure , if you can find good 411-412 go and buy wend the car is top shape you have fun ,,, albert

There were plenty wagons here with manual 'boxes - in fact I think most of them were manuals - 411 and 412.

Auto 'boxes were never very popular here in most cars - even new cars today are mostly manuals.

You can find manual 411's here, I know of 3 sitting in a yard right now.

After reading several posts on the performance of the Type 4 automatic, I may be re-thinking my original idea of 4-speed only. It sounds like the automatics were REALLY smooth and well engineered. Previously, I was under the (perhaps mistaken) impression that VW automatics were junk; whereas the manuals were bulletproof.

In any case, I should have posted a more detailed search request: I'm willing to wait for a really good 411 wagon DRIVER -- close to stock as possible. I know, with a few exceptions, they all need work. But I'd like to enjoy it for awhile (after minimum wrenching to get it roadworthy). Yes, I'm willing to be patient -- and pay for it.

Albert, thanks for the lead. I don't know how that one got by me. I'll check it out.

Deathbus: are any of the three you mentioned close to the condition I'm after?

Meanwhile, I'm looking..............maybe I'll end up in S. Africa.
Thanks to all! --Dave

MACAnimal wrote:After reading several posts on the performance of the Type 4 automatic, I may be re-thinking my original idea of 4-speed only. It sounds like the automatics were REALLY smooth and well engineered. Previously, I was under the (perhaps mistaken) impression that VW automatics were junk; whereas the manuals were bulletproof.

In any case, I should have posted a more detailed search request: I'm willing to wait for a really good 411 wagon DRIVER -- close to stock as possible. I know, with a few exceptions, they all need work. But I'd like to enjoy it for awhile (after minimum wrenching to get it roadworthy). Yes, I'm willing to be patient -- and pay for it.

Albert, thanks for the lead. I don't know how that one got by me. I'll check it out.

Deathbus: are any of the three you mentioned close to the condition I'm after?

Meanwhile, I'm looking..............maybe I'll end up in S. Africa.
Thanks to all! --Dave

nope, pretty damn rusted and the drive trains are gone except for the shifters.

Get shifters, shiftrods and gates from those if you can. They should also all have rear sway bars. Ray