411 newbie questions

MattKab · Post by **MattKab** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 3:01 am

Hello, I've got some questions about my 411.

The front ball joints feel a bit rough, are they the same as early 1303 ball-joints?

Are the brake discs unique to the 411/412?

Where will I find the chassis number?

Are the rear brake drums still available? The threads have seen some abuse. Is there a stud that works well? stock 4 pcd.

Does anyone have the stock wheel alignment figures?

I must get some of this welding done today..

Matt

Wally · Post by **Wally** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:52 am

Hey Matt,

Congrats on the 411! Did you find the battery yet

Took me some time

No, the ball joints are not a 1303 part, I'am afraid.

The disks are not 411/412 unique tho. AFAIK, the last model year type 3 (1973) had the same and the early 914 has also the same disks/rotors.

Regards,
Walter

ubercrap · Post by **ubercrap** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:29 am

The early Type IV front brake discs are the same as the late Type III, and the late Type IV front discs are the same as the late 914. Rear drums should be the same as the late Type III I believe.

MattKab · Post by **MattKab** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:03 pm

Thanks for the bad news!

Bummer about the balljoints, there is no play (yet), they just feel a little 'gritty'.

I did head straight to the back seat to find the battery

I found the VIN, it's real name is 460204xxxx making it a 1970 model. It's a few years older than me (but not as old as Wally)

I think I have another 3 weekends worth of welding to finish, then sort the electrics and then I'll take it into work for a ticket. This might just be my next daily driver!

Thanks for the help.

Matt

Wally · Post by **Wally** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:09 pm

MattKab wrote: It's a few years older than me (but not as old as Wally)

Matt

I will get you back for this remark tho

I hope on 'the ring'

But you are (somewhat) right I hate to admit. Just when I was getting used to being 'thirty-something, I crossed another 'milestone'

They will grow on you Matt (the car that is); you'll see

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:58 pm

The ball joints probably need grease. Take the strut and steering knuckle loose....and with a 1/8" drill bit with a drill stop mounted on it...drill dead center into the dome on the bakc of the ball joint. There is nothing to hit...as this is the center of the spring. Then, either cut gaskets of very thin material...or use a hard type sealer around the edge of the ball joints and reassemble them to the strut.
Then...notice thesmall hole cast in on the inside/rotor side of each ball joint. Tap that for a standard low pofile grease fitting. Pump the joint full of grease until teh boot swells. They will last forever then. Ray

Bobnotch · Post by **Bobnotch** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 5:29 pm

I have a slightly different question, and since the door is partly open, I thought I'd post here rather than start a new topic.
Where is the D-jet FI brain located at in a t-4 station wagon? Also which side does the wiring harness to it run toward the engine? I'm working on a t-4 into a t-3 conversion, and I'm using t-4 parts and components. Any help is really appreciated.

vwbill · Post by **vwbill** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:42 pm

I think the wagen brain is in the side rear seat panel behind the driver seat? On the sedan its inside the black rectangle panel in the engine bay and is mounted to the plate. I would guess the wiring goes through the engine bay wall to the side of the body to the seat side panel area. Good luck and watch for those vacuum leaks on the Djet setup! The vacuum can and MPS and the intake rail hoses! Also watch out for that PVC hose routing deal! bill

MattKab · Post by **MattKab** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:58 am

Hey Wally, You're right about this 411 growing on me! Apologies for the ageist remark. I'll let you pass me on the 'ring...

Once!

Ray, top tip for regreasing the ball joints, I found 1 new boot at work yesterday to replace my bad one, already have a spare pair of suitable grease nipples.

I drive sat on the RHS, the ECU on my 411 is mounted behind the rear 1/4 panel on the RHS.

Do I have to remove the engine/trans to remove the heater? I'd really like to service it before I try and fire it up, if you know what I mean.

Anybody ever seen wheel alignment data for these cars?

Matt

Bobnotch · Post by **Bobnotch** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:22 pm

Thanks vwbill, that helps a lot. I'll be watching for any air leaks, becuse I know you can't have any with the D-jet.

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 4:32 pm

Glad you mentioned wheel alignment. It is an issue for these cars. Here is a few things to take in over a good beer.
(1) The factory settings were lacking in caster. This is mainly because it was nearly impossible to get any more from the adjustment is has.

(2) On that note....the three 19mm bolts that hold the subframe of front suspension on (that "T" shaped piece)....have sliding captive nuts in slots inside the chassis. They allow....peculiarly....the rear most bolt to be able to slide forward (which ic cannot)....and teh front ones to slip sde to side.
This is so that the "T" piece can be pivoted to the right or left to "equalize" the amount of castor on each side. While this fine tuning is nice...it does not allow the increasing of the total amount of castor. It also.....screws up you camber.

What you can do:

You can increase the amount of castor you have....by drilling, grinding out or further slotting the right and left holes that are welded in tube type bushings in front of the "T" subframe. Dot not mess wit hteh captive nuts in the body. What you want to do...is enlarge the bolt holes toward the rear...so that the frame can be slid forward...perhaps 3/8". The "real" way to do this....is to machine out the tube bushings that are in there...and install steel bar bushings that have an elongated bolt hole milled through it. Then weld top and bottom. But I found that an hour with a die grinder did nicely. You will need a larger thicker washer on the bottom below the bolt head.

The stock castor angle...is about 1.2-1.5 degrees if memory serves. I will post all of the data from the book tommorrow. You need about 2.2 to 2.5 with 3.0 degrees being max.

The camber problem. In Europe, many of the vehicles had the holes in the "T" subframe....where the control arm bushings are bolted in.....slotted so a standard eccentric bolt just like what is used on the rear trailing arm bushing can be installed. Itworks perfect. It is about a 1 hour job with a die grinder. If you take the subframe out....just put in the camber and castor adjustment at the same time.

Now....at the adjuster's shop. In the USA...98% of all shops....cannot align this car. This is because they are used to 5,000 lb vehciles and have systems wherin....everything is average to the nearest degree....cause it just does not matter. You will notice that the 411/412 lists emasurements in degrees AND minutes. This is important because the contol arms are so long and the leverage so high...it makes a difference.

In order to get rid of the shimmies....and have a superb alignment, here are some tried and true things.

(1) Fill up the fuel tank.
(2) Hve poper tire pressure
(3) make sure....that when they use the air lift to lift the front end slightly off the ground to do teh turning castor check...that they barely lift it at all.
This is one of the largest mistakes. The front end is so light...and the camber and castor change so radically....that they screw up the adjustment right there. You do not need to lift the front end in orderto make turning the wheel on the pivot pad...easy. Inform them of this. This is a rear engine vehicle not a front engine vehicle.

Also...for every major size change from stock tire tread width...you will need about 1* extra of toe in. So for a 205-60--15....it works best to have about an extra 2* of toe. I generlly have to set this myself.

Replace your strut bearings, replace your centerlink, replace the centering rings on your radius arms and replace your idler arm bushing.....
or you will have simmies. Ray

MattKab · Post by **MattKab** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:26 pm

Thanks Ray, for more top-notch info.

The rust repairs I mentioned are to the two front subframe mounts, I can put my new ones in further forward, like you suggested.

I have sourced new centering rings, Mk2 Ford Fiesta parts are possibly superior, they're hard plastic rather than hard rubber. The rubbers that fit either side of the centreing rings are still good, and much stiffer than the new Fiesta parts which are foam like. I've almost finished freeing up the trackrods, the rod-ends are still in good order. The steering box is good but the bushings in the idler do need replacing.

I have access to 4 wheel laser wheel alignment, I can do this myself on a 4post lift with turn-plates at work. I'm looking forward to that moment!! I just need a starting point. It does look like the alignment is critical, that's why I posted.

The mountings for the front anti-roll bar are nolonger, I'll sort that out while it's up in the air also. I've replace the box section that runs around the bottom of the front innerwings. I need to remove the front wings (very nice GRP) to do some repairs around the strut towers.

Other than that it's mint!

I need to get this car rolling again, I can't stand not having access to my Beetle.

Matt