Silly idea?

[51MAN]

In my quest to find a car to do some distance driving in.. and not finding what I want..

I had a brain storm..

What about a 411/412 with a few mods..
ie sorted suspension, bigger wheels, brakes etc..
+ a bigger motor, biult for the autoroute/freeway..

Now, it has to look as stock as poss in the engine bay.. and hit emissions etc..

The idea is to be able to sit at 80mph for hour on hour, with more to go.. be reliable and econimical.. It would prob be on LPG anyway, so added advantage of high octane (100+)
If I can find myself a good base car.. ideally what engine/fi setup should I be looking for.?

I know Ray Greenwood has done a lot with his.. but would this level of mods be enough?
Extra oil cooling etc not a problem.. but aftermarket fi would be, unless it can be made to look standard (and fit in the OE box)

Am I thinking too far out of the box??
Yhe route would be
autoroute for about 170 miles
negotiate a city perimeter for 50 miles
autoroute for 170 miles
and then normal roads for 70 miles..

Each way, every other weekend.. this could be for 3-6 months..

I know... I am mad...

[ubercrap]

I don't see why a 411/412 couldn't do that, but I don't have enough experience yet to know for sure. They aren't like a Beetle- they were meant for more luxurious higher-speed highway cruising.

[albert]

i doo 12kmls from april to today with my 412 wagon 73-1700 cc on autorout and city at some time 80 mi.hrs on autoroute or normal city spead and with over 30deg. cel. temp and my car d,t geve me any problem and he have 92kmil. with 145pond compression on the cilynder , if you do the normal maintenance with oil 20-50 during hot time periode (summer ) you can run your 412 at 90mil.hrs for short périod if you want . no problem ,but read the maintenance book and do that and he geeve you performance ,,but do good ajusment on your valve at évery 5kmil,,good luck,, alb.

[vwbill]

To bad you werent closer to this one! Sounds like a good start....Then just add the dream Porsche 6 or mod the T4 for a screamer highway flyer...! http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/ ... ?id=226578

[51MAN]

Cheers
I need LHD really.. but it could do..
finding a solid car that will be a good base is a problem here.. not many left..
It might be easier to get one from the US.... and possibly cheaper!!!

[Jan Peter de geus]

Look around in Germany; there you'll find the largest population. Also try the type 4 clubs in Germany, the Netherlands and other countries; they might know of cars for sale. Ebay occasionally has cars for sale in Germany, Austria and Belgium. By the way, I drive my stock engined 411 variant all over Europe, occasionally up to 1200 km on a day with prolonged streches of 130 km/hr, no problems at all, just a bit noisy. Would like the idea of a much stronger engine, though! Cheers, Jan Peter

[tuna]

That sounds almost exactly like my "German Look" 411 idea that I'm planning on doing someday. Please keep us informed on the progress, as myself and the rest of the regulars would like to know what you did and the "issues" you were faced with.

Tuna

[51MAN]

Hi
Thanks..
I will be up in Belgium for a few months working so would be good to meet some "crazy" people....

Just been told of a '74 1800 carb engined '12wagon.. hoping to find out more about it..
If it was carb from the factory then it will have to stay like that.. so will it cause me headaches for a bigger cruise engine??
Not looking for all out power, but reliable 75-85mph/130-140kmh running..

How does the carb engine compare to the Fi? and say a 1.7 Fi?
Might be able to sneak some better carbs on.. but doubt twin 40's... (Although I do have a pair in the shed!!!

Yeah, I want to do a sort of "german look", kinda stock with some subtle tricks.. lower but not too low, better handling etc..
What springs do you guys use? Shocks?
Some bigger wheels, but again not too big.. so whats a good starting size?
Whats all this front end geometry changes thats good??

[51MAN]

Oh yeah..
Forgot, I have a tired 1.7 "W" in the shed too.. Might even be able to get hold of the good one I fitted to a "vanagon" as well.. that went well considering.. the guy has messed about with it and it isnt running.. he's bored with the bus now.. so i might be able to buy it back cheap!!!

[ubercrap]

Hi
Thanks..
I will be up in Belgium for a few months working so would be good to meet some "crazy" people....

Just been told of a '74 1800 carb engined '12wagon.. hoping to find out more about it..
If it was carb from the factory then it will have to stay like that.. so will it cause me headaches for a bigger cruise engine??
Not looking for all out power, but reliable 75-85mph/130-140kmh running..

How does the carb engine compare to the Fi? and say a 1.7 Fi?
Might be able to sneak some better carbs on.. but doubt twin 40's... (Although I do have a pair in the shed!!!

Yeah, I want to do a sort of "german look", kinda stock with some subtle tricks.. lower but not too low, better handling etc..
What springs do you guys use? Shocks?
Some bigger wheels, but again not too big.. so whats a good starting size?
Whats all this front end geometry changes thats good??

Just search for all the front end/steering/suspension posts by Ray Greenwood. He has a thorough plan of what needs to be done. Ray recommends 15 X5.5 wheels with 205/60 15 tires I believe. That's the conservative route. Me? I likes to go a little farther with my wheel and tire combos. I've seen pictures of 17 X 7's w/ 205/40 17 on the front...

[51MAN]

Cheers I have been trolling through the posts... some very good stuff..
15's would be ok for me.. as it needs to retain some comfort in the ride.. 16's a poss, but a radicle ride would be good on 17's...

Now my trouble is, finding the ideal car...

[Jan Peter de geus]

In Europe the 74 model year introduced the 1800 cc engine in 2 varieties: low compression with 75 PS and high compression with 85 PS (The "S" model) Both had twin Solex 40 PDSIT carbs. The change from FI to carbs was mainly cost savings driven as the type 4 sales were quite a disaster.

If you consider a German looker you might think of Porsche cup 1 or 2 alloys in 7x17 ? Or the good old ATS alloys in 7x15 ?

Good luck with your project,
Jan Peter

[raygreenwood]

The stock fuel injected 1.7...well tuned...drives 85+ mph all day long. No problem. If its has a better cam and exhaust...and closer too 100 hp...its even better. In this part of the country...all destinations are an average off 4 hours apart at 75 mph. I have spent many a mile at well over 80 in my 412.
But...you really need to have to front end sorted out before doing that. The main issue is better castor angle. It gets rid of the wandering in cross winds.

The fuel injection was not a cost saving device. It costs roughly 3 times what the stock carbs did. It produces better HP and torque across the board.....and better emmissions. The USA version of the 1.8 was worthless. The 1.7 produced better power and throttle response....and ran cooler. Ray

[51MAN]

Thanks Ray
I have ben reading up on you excelent mods for the front end.. will be one of the first mods..
Unfortunately, carbs or Fi might be out of my choice.. as finding a good enough car to start with will be the problem..
I was going to go simple.. like stock 66 crank with 1915cc pistons sensible cam, clean the heads around the exhaust valve boss, 4-1 header and quiet silencer.. nothing mad.. just to make a bit more power and fuel economy
It will prob end up on LPG anyway.... Have you guys seen the price of fuel here? 1.32 euro a Litre.. thats 5 euro a US gallon.. thats 6 dollars a gallon... LPG = 2.82 US a gallon...

[tuna]

The fuel injection was not a cost saving device.

I think Jan Peter was saying that the 1.8 carbed version was a cost saving effort to drum up sales of the 412, as the FI system was more expensive.

Tuna