It had been my understanding that the seals for a Type 4 steering box were hard to come by. So I thought that I would let others know that I had been able to find both of them. The seal for the sector shaft is new and should be readily available. The one I got is a Dichtomatik TCM part #28x40x7TC. The input shaft seal looks to be new old stock, and the one I ended up with is a Lechler 16x24x7B.
I was able to get these through a locally owned auto parts house.
Steering gear seals
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vwbill
- Posts: 970
- Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:01 am
Thanks for the info Wildthing! That sounds like one to put in the sticky notes! Did you get the seals at a bearing and seal place or autoparts place? Can you list their name and number for the vendors list? It's always nice to deal with guys that have heard the mystery I'm searching for parts for your 411/412 story,lol! Have you installed the seals yet? Was wonder how that mission was? bill
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wildthings
- Posts: 1171
- Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:42 am
Seal installation was pretty easy. There are only a couple of places where one could go wrong. Things to watch out for:
1. Use a gear puller to remove the pitman arm, if you try and use a wedge you will ruin the case.
2. Use care splitting the case, treat it gently.
3. Before backing out the large screw that adjust the preload on the worm gear bearings, punch mark it so you can get it back right to where it was.
4. After you have removed the above adjusting screw, turn the worm so that the shaft moves far enough out of the housing so that the seal for the worm shaft can be easily removed and refitted. The bearing and race will fall out of the housing as you do this, don't let them end up in the dirt. You do not want to remove the worm gear from the sector roller. This would be a bad mistake, don't turn it too far out!!!
5. In order to get the worm shaft back into position and reinstall the lower bearing, you will have to pry up on the sector, it is spring loaded against the worm. This is the trickiest part, but not impossible is you have three arms.
6. Reinstall the worm bearing preload screw to its original position.
7. Replacing the seal for the pitman arm shaft is pretty straight forward.
I have no idea how to properly adjust the worm preload if you feel it is off. Maybe Ray could chime in here to help.
1. Use a gear puller to remove the pitman arm, if you try and use a wedge you will ruin the case.
2. Use care splitting the case, treat it gently.
3. Before backing out the large screw that adjust the preload on the worm gear bearings, punch mark it so you can get it back right to where it was.
4. After you have removed the above adjusting screw, turn the worm so that the shaft moves far enough out of the housing so that the seal for the worm shaft can be easily removed and refitted. The bearing and race will fall out of the housing as you do this, don't let them end up in the dirt. You do not want to remove the worm gear from the sector roller. This would be a bad mistake, don't turn it too far out!!!
5. In order to get the worm shaft back into position and reinstall the lower bearing, you will have to pry up on the sector, it is spring loaded against the worm. This is the trickiest part, but not impossible is you have three arms.
6. Reinstall the worm bearing preload screw to its original position.
7. Replacing the seal for the pitman arm shaft is pretty straight forward.
I have no idea how to properly adjust the worm preload if you feel it is off. Maybe Ray could chime in here to help.
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11912
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
A couple things here. Let us know how the 16mm part of that seal works out. I was just about to try that. The actual correct size...is 17mm I believe. The correct seal....was custom manufactured for VW....and exists nowhere. I had mine made...years ago.
Some thinsg to watch out for. The original oil...was similar to a Browning type PTO (power take-off) gear box unit oil. It is approximately 90 weight.
If you cannot get great seals.....skip the oil....clean the box totaly inside and out, and use Permatex super lube. This is a clear synthetic teflon based grease....looks like vaseline...but stays a nice creamy vaseline consistancy to about 40 below and above 350F. It will not flow past your seals. What you need to do to use is....is to firt pack every thing. Thing after assembly....take a piece of rubber heater hose that is a tight fit on the pitman arm shaft...and graft a fat plug and greiece fitting into the end. Before you re-install what pitman arm shaft seal you have...slide the red heater hose down into the seal recess....tightly. Then pump wit hthe grease gun....until grease flows from one of the plastic top plugs that has been removed. Remove the one farthest from the pitman arm. Pump...rotate the input haft...pump roatate the shaft. The object is to remove all air spaces. This stuff works awesome in all weather. I have run that since 95 with no problems. Very smooth.
If you dissaseemble the box...be very careful to get all of the ball bearings back into the recirculating ball section.
The object with preload on the worm drive shaft that goes through the recirculating ball section is to have as little slack as possible...but to have some. Unlike a roller bearing or standard ball bearing...you do not really want a lot of load applied. You want the input shaft in the middle of its stroke...centered....and then screw in the adjuster plug....with fingers...until it just contacts. Then back it off like one clock position...or about 1/12 rotation or less. If you impinge upon the ball bearings at either end...it can damage them.
The important part is the adjustment of the "knuckle" where it goes into teh output shaft "dish". If you had it apart...those should have been checked for scoring...then polished. You want to bring the "knuckle"..or ball part down until it contacts. Then back it off....about 1/5 turn. ust enough to keep teh crown of the ball from making contact. The contact load area whould be the sides of the ball or knuckle.....not the crown. If you leave the adjustment tightly in contact...you will wear...and very quickly need to adjust again...ad that is hard to do when the box is in teh car.
Another alternative or grease...but again....you need to get the unit packed completely.....with no voids.....is pure molybdenum disulphide paste. I have no idea how that will work in very cold weather as far as turning stiffness...but it will not run past worn seals....or allow any wear.
If you have no seal for the pittman arm shaft.....you can simply replace it with fat tight fitting o-rings....if you go to a real grease instead of an oil. Ray
Some thinsg to watch out for. The original oil...was similar to a Browning type PTO (power take-off) gear box unit oil. It is approximately 90 weight.
If you cannot get great seals.....skip the oil....clean the box totaly inside and out, and use Permatex super lube. This is a clear synthetic teflon based grease....looks like vaseline...but stays a nice creamy vaseline consistancy to about 40 below and above 350F. It will not flow past your seals. What you need to do to use is....is to firt pack every thing. Thing after assembly....take a piece of rubber heater hose that is a tight fit on the pitman arm shaft...and graft a fat plug and greiece fitting into the end. Before you re-install what pitman arm shaft seal you have...slide the red heater hose down into the seal recess....tightly. Then pump wit hthe grease gun....until grease flows from one of the plastic top plugs that has been removed. Remove the one farthest from the pitman arm. Pump...rotate the input haft...pump roatate the shaft. The object is to remove all air spaces. This stuff works awesome in all weather. I have run that since 95 with no problems. Very smooth.
If you dissaseemble the box...be very careful to get all of the ball bearings back into the recirculating ball section.
The object with preload on the worm drive shaft that goes through the recirculating ball section is to have as little slack as possible...but to have some. Unlike a roller bearing or standard ball bearing...you do not really want a lot of load applied. You want the input shaft in the middle of its stroke...centered....and then screw in the adjuster plug....with fingers...until it just contacts. Then back it off like one clock position...or about 1/12 rotation or less. If you impinge upon the ball bearings at either end...it can damage them.
The important part is the adjustment of the "knuckle" where it goes into teh output shaft "dish". If you had it apart...those should have been checked for scoring...then polished. You want to bring the "knuckle"..or ball part down until it contacts. Then back it off....about 1/5 turn. ust enough to keep teh crown of the ball from making contact. The contact load area whould be the sides of the ball or knuckle.....not the crown. If you leave the adjustment tightly in contact...you will wear...and very quickly need to adjust again...ad that is hard to do when the box is in teh car.
Another alternative or grease...but again....you need to get the unit packed completely.....with no voids.....is pure molybdenum disulphide paste. I have no idea how that will work in very cold weather as far as turning stiffness...but it will not run past worn seals....or allow any wear.
If you have no seal for the pittman arm shaft.....you can simply replace it with fat tight fitting o-rings....if you go to a real grease instead of an oil. Ray
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wildthings
- Posts: 1171
- Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:42 am
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11912
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am