I have heard of Teflon buttons outside the ACVW world.. but never seen them really pushed like the AC VW guys do... Some bike guys.. and the British racer crowd... And a handful of drag racers.. but that is all I have seen... Apparently the rest of the millions of internal combustion engines in the world are driving around on the ragged edge of failure with snap rings and cir-clips..
I have put snap rings in all kinds of different engines and have never seen a failure from a properly installed snap ring.. I would think if the block, crank, or rod is twisting hard enough, enough times to beat the wrist pin past a properly installed snap ring you have other things to worry about...
But maybe I am missing something specific to the AC VW engine that makes them so popular... Simple.. and everybody is in the engine every 1000 miles anyway?
Turbo_Manx_Maniac wrote:
I've never heard of a clip failing other than on the internet.
Since I told you about a clip falling out via the internet, does that mean you don't believe it happened?
I'm sure it happens, wasn't calling BS rather looking to hear from people that had it happen. In my circle I've never heard of that happening, that's all.
I've used the buttons on every motor I've ever built, never drilled holes in them though. Interested in where you drill the hole, and how many holes you drill. Any pics?
I accidentally Googled my Twitter. (And I liked it)
while we are on the subject of these teflon buttons....how do you get them out? im pulling apart my motor now and was wondering how to remove them so i could get my piston off the connecting rod?
ronholm wrote:just push the pin out..... nothing holds them in but the cylinder wall
hmmm...i tried that, didnt wanna bang on it to hard but i guess ill try again. what if the wrist pins are installed as well as the buttons? what should i do then?
Cover the gap in your case to keep parts from falling inside. Take the thumb of your choice, probably one of your own, and push in on one of the buttons, pushing the piston pin out the other side. The opposite button will fall out. You can then push the pin back in the other direction to push the other button out.
'72 Standard
"I am the proud owner of a "Hoover Bit".
185 60's, EMPI disc kit, EMPI 2 1/2" dropped spindles on the front.
185 65's and stock binders on the back.
SecondSkin - Damplifier Pro and Luxury Liner Pro for sound control.
harryset wrote:Cover the gap in your case to keep parts from falling inside. Take the thumb of your choice, probably one of your own, and push in on one of the buttons, pushing the piston pin out the other side. The opposite button will fall out. You can then push the pin back in the other direction to push the other button out.
hmmm...i tried that, didnt wanna bang on it to hard but i guess ill try again. what if the wrist pins are installed as well as the buttons? what should i do then?
I'd be amazed if someone installed buttons over wristpin clips...not saying it couldn't be done (using buttons intended for a different size piston) but why?
More likely, the buttons have just swollen from pounding and it'll take more than thumb pressure to pop them out - you may need to use a hammer & drift to tap against one until the other comes free.
Turbo_Manx_Maniac wrote:Screw a sheetrock screw into the button and pull it out from the screw.
thats what i was thinking too...ima try the banging it out method one more time but it kinda makes me cringe knocking thinks a direction that they are not supposed to go. Like sideways. Anyway thanks for the advice and ill give it a try later.
harryset wrote:Cover the gap in your case to keep parts from falling inside. Take the thumb of your choice, probably one of your own, and push in on one of the buttons, pushing the piston pin out the other side. The opposite button will fall out. You can then push the pin back in the other direction to push the other button out.
hmmm...i tried that, didnt wanna bang on it to hard but i guess ill try again. what if the wrist pins are installed as well as the buttons? what should i do then?
...did you read my post?
Yep, insert foot.
Try drilling a hole in the buttons and picking them out with a dental type tool. Some of the buttons fit really tight and some are relatively loose. Then go to work on your pins. I've never had stuck pins before, most have just needed a little tap with a hammer and a deep socket. Turbo Manx's suggestion should work as well.
'72 Standard
"I am the proud owner of a "Hoover Bit".
185 60's, EMPI disc kit, EMPI 2 1/2" dropped spindles on the front.
185 65's and stock binders on the back.
SecondSkin - Damplifier Pro and Luxury Liner Pro for sound control.
Marc wrote:...
More likely, the buttons have just swollen from pounding and it'll take more than thumb pressure to pop them out - you may need to use a hammer & drift to tap against one until the other comes free.
good call...gave it a little whack with a hammer and socket and they came out. thanks guys!
When I built my first engine I pinched the nose bearing. Thus not allowing me to set the endplay correctly. Which after a little bit of wearing in allowed the crank to end up with .044" of end play. Did a number to the pin clip bores. Upon disassembly to fix that I found that the pin had beat the clips to where it had rolled an edge up where the clip sat in the piston so much I had to get a die grinder with a flap wheel inside the pin bore and buff it out enough so I could slide the pin out. And that was with just over 100 miles on it. I went with buttons after that and will prob stick with them. Seems as though either way you go you risk damaging the cylinder wall so it boils down to how bad and fast you want to do it. Not saying that a properly installed clip will come out, but there is always a chance for error. Either manufacter or assembler. And when it happens failure is failure. At that point is has to be replaced no matter what. But on the flip side how ofyen did the stock clips fail in a stock engine driven as a daily driver? Even back when they ruled the streets, even though I wasnt a twinkle in anyones eye at that time. But judging by how often its talked about now it didnt seem to be much of a problem until people started trying to do stuff to them that probably shouldnt have been tried. But so glad they did.
Bugfuel wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:42 pm
unconfirmed rumors of buttons wearing and scuffing cylinder walls.
I use spiral locks. You know, the kind that are insanely hard to take out when you are TRYING to.
I used to race motorcycles back in the 1970s and for a time used900cc big-bore kits on Honda CB750 motorcycles. I used some kits with Teflon buttons and unfortunately, I can confirm that the DO score the cylinder walls and you can end up with quite noticeable channels.
Yep, insert foot.
