The (cool) blue jewel lives - AGAIN!

[411NUT]

Hi, 411 fans!

Haven't been here for a while and just came back to say to Ray Greenwood (and others) that this 411 still LIVES - against all odds. It's back on its familiar alternate sides of the street in Montebello, CA. The most recent chapter of its exciting life involved running out of gas on a hill (not recommended) and then refusing to start again after the 2-Gal emergency gas injection. A few tows and repair shops later, it finally landed in Jim's VW Shop in Monterrey Park. Jim and Doug are old hands when it comes to ANY vintage VW, including the 411. The previous VW mechanic had told us that the problem was a bad relay but Jim and Doug found out otherwise (after I had bought a new relay). The wiring had been thoroughly messed up to make the fuel pump operate even with the engine turned off!!! The old too-rich idle problem was also fixed and the major present problem is the brake pedal does not pop back up after being depressed - very depressing! So, this means that while driving, and after depressing the brake pedal, the brake pedal has to be returned (by foot) to its un-depressed position - again and again and again. Fortunately, this cool blue jewel has an automatic transmission. Also found out (after a recent rain) that rain and this 411 are not friends! It wouldn't start after it had rained for about a day. The AAA guy intimated that it could be dampness in the carb and would be a minor problem to fix (the battery had just been replaced at Jim's, so we knew that wasn't the problem). Sure enough, after a day of dryness, the blue jewel started right up! So the only (HaHA!) problem remaining is why the brake pedal stays depressed. Any clues for a solution would be greatly appreciated. We are hoping and praying that this is not a master cylinder problem!!!

[raygreenwood]

Good to see you again! Along these same lines.....my baby ( 1973 2 door 412 with 4 speed)comes home next weekend if all goes well! Its been unmoving for 9 years. Its been in a storage unit for 5 years. Its new engine is ready to be assembled! I will start a build thread.

There are several potential causes of the brake pedal down syndrome.

1. if you can pull the pedal up by hand and it has brake pressure on the way down...but it will not return even a smidgeon...and pulling up is very effortless....your return spring may be off the hook or rusted through.

2. if brake action is marginal...and its not effortless to pull up...it usually is rusty master cylinder and needs rebuild or replacement. Ray

[411NUT]

I was hoping that you're still around, Ray. Sounds like you have a very exciting project coming up. I'll look for your build thread and will undoubtedly learn a lot. I am floored by anyone who tackles what you describe! Thanks for the clues about my brake pedal problem. Fortunately, the problem is what you describe in #1. I'll have a closer look and check out the spring (and ask Jim about it when I get the chance). Are these springs hard to come by? I'm guessing that to find ANY part for the blue jewel will not be easy?! Any suggestions? Do you know which model/model years use the same spring? I found springs on eBay for a Type 3 for a wide range of years (including 1971) but the ad doesn't specify the 411 Type 4 as compatible.

[raygreenwood]

There are three part #'s for the spring.....one is for Left hand drive brake on both automatic and manual- 411-721-163B. Thats the on you want.

The other two are for clutch and right hand drive.

Its kind of unique. But...I think in looking at it...if you cannot find another spring...look at Vanagon brake springs and see what they have. Their pedal cinfiguration and date are similar. If you are in a pinch...i would think that you could put a tout extension spring in the hole at the top of the lever and attach it to the firewall at some point. Ray

[411NUT]

Thanks for that info, Ray! I went to check the brake pedal movement today and the pedal actually partially returns after I pushed it down and then released it. I think that means the spring is attached and may be OK and perhaps just needs cleaning and oiling - or a WD40 treatment? Does that make sense to you? It's hard for me to get in there (bad back) but maybe any mechanic can do it? (or discover that the spring doesn't have enough "spring" in it anymore and needs replacing?)

PS I also talked to Jim (Jim's VW Repair in Monterey Park, CA) today to make sure they had checked the brake pedal return spring and he assured me that they did and that the problem is something else. So they'll have another look at it tomorrow (taking things apart).