Potential turbo WBX build

[Vee Dub Nut]

Hey guys.. A different area of the forum than I usually frequent, but I've recently developed some interest in turbo WBX engines as the next logical step for my pursuit of turbo'ed VW's. I've become really fond of the WBX idea mostly because of consistency of water cooling, which is a benefit living in south Texas, plus the internal changes and improvements of the type V bottom end over the standard type I engine.

As i posted in my EFI build thread, I'm not sure if this will pan out into anything real or not, but this followed me home today.



After some cleaning and removing of various junk...



MV code



I ran across this engine locally and went ahead and picked it up to satisfy my curiosities. I bought it from a local auto salvage yard and think I got a nice deal on it overall. It's a pretty complete MV code engine, turns over and feels like it has nice compression, but there is no history on it so who knows really what's inside. Looks decent from the outside, and appears to still have its original heads. My plan is to pull it all down and see what the story is and decide from there whether to build it or not. I'm most worried about pitting/corrosion of the jacket and water pump areas... Most everything else would be changed or massaged on the turbo build I'm dreaming up...

My ideas:
Go Westy forged 96mm piston and bored stock liner kit
Stock crank (probably sent through DPR)
Some sort of upgraded rods and bolts (CB unitechs opened for 24mm pins?)
CB perf hydro cam & lifters
Reworked heads, or possibly new AMC heads
Stock intake and plenum w/ modified throttle body
Megasquirt injection (I'd upgrade to MS3 likely) w/COP ignition
Turbo mounted over the top of the engine w/custom built header
Air/Water intercooler in the parcel tray
Radiator in the spare wheel well (67 Sedan)

My aim is for a street able and RELIABLE 300-350hp that I can drive all day any time of year down here without worry.

Thoughts or pointers? I'll keep this thread updated as I tear down the engine. It will be after Christmas before I can get it on the stand and all apart. I'd like to hear opinions on my ideas and the condition of my core engine as I get into it, as the type V world is all new to me.

[buildabiggerboxer]

Good move Dub nut, your planned agenda and the parts list is sound. just look for cracked liners and cracked heads on the old core, liner cracks start at the bottom, door stops if so, the heads crack between the seats and run up into the inlet tract, same as above, door stops or use for practice porting limits, tho' with turbo, the port sizes are basic good as is. the stock rods are good with ARP or raceware bolts, just check the eyes are still round and not oval.

[Vee Dub Nut]

Good move Dub nut, your planned agenda and the parts list is sound. just look for cracked liners and cracked heads on the old core, liner cracks start at the bottom, door stops if so, the heads crack between the seats and run up into the inlet tract, same as above, door stops or use for practice porting limits, tho' with turbo, the port sizes are basic good as is. the stock rods are good with ARP or raceware bolts, just check the eyes are still round and not oval.

Thanks for the tips.. I'll make sure to thoroughly check these areas when it gets pulled down.

[westypoo]

dooo it! i love my waterboxer build that i did. i plan on to turbo mine as well. hoping by this summer it will be. 300hp would be awesome in a WBX. for me i think ill be happy with 150-160hp range.

[Vee Dub Nut]

Finally got the engine short blocked today, and the outlook isn't so great

Short story is the heads had cracks between the valves. I sort of expected head damage, and assumed I would be replacing them anyways, so not too big of a deal. The engine and jacket areas were pretty gummy and nasty, but everything should clean up fine. The bad was the damage I found on the water jacket edge. There was of course a few normal pits and such that likely could have been handled with JBWeld or similar on both sides of the block, but there is one large pit on the bottom of the passenger side that goes through the entire wall. Pic attached...



This is pretty screwed right? I know that Rocky Jennings has mentioned welding and decking cases before, but that's probably honestly more than I want to go through I think... Thoughts from the more experienced?

[Piledriver]

The thick rubber wrap around seal that goes uner that edge (and goobered up with Dirko per spec) can cover up huge sins. In THAT location, "deck' = weld and FILE flat and finish up with scotchbrite most likely.

Looks like someone used the wrong coolant on that one, a very common cause of death for WBX, along with egg-shaped rod big ends--- the primary cause of death via ventilated blocks on 2.1L motors. (and the usual cause of low oil pressure)

A set of SCAT I beams will make for a good investment, and cost little more than a set of ARP bolts for the std rods.
Available in various lengths and have sufficient meat for 24mm pins if you go there.

Tencentlife has posted some great info on the various combinations he uses in this forum...
Per usual, do a lot of research before spending more $$$.

[Vee Dub Nut]

Thanks Pile...

That's the general answer I got on TOS about repairing it. I know folks who are well skilled at tig welding aluminum, so I may see if I can get that area cleaned up and built back up. Then I can deck/file it back down flush with the rest of the ledge. What's the best way to go about cleaning that water jacket ledge to get all the mucky crap and old sealant off?

In general, your suggestions are where I'm heading. I've done a lot of research up to this point and have some decent ideas on what I'd like to try/do. I'm just going through this core engine right now to see what I can and can't use, and then I'll go from there. So far this is the worst of it. I'll probably push on and split the case down this weekend and clean everything up. Then I can see about getting the case repaired in the following days.

[andy198712]

aluminium braze/solder?

[Piledriver]

A machine shops hot, sudsy cleaning tank should work OK.

Make sure to drill/tap/plug (and then remove plugs) on all the oil passages first per usual.

Also make sure to remove/tap/plug the restrictor plug on case pulley end, it traps crud.
AFAICT it isn't needed, as the #4 bearing as a ~tiny oil hole for the same purpose.

Good time to do the HVX oiling mods as well, VW took a step back on the WBX vs. the T4, so you need to still do most of the same oiling mods as a T1.

[Vee Dub Nut]

Well, I finally got some time today to finish tearing down the waterboxer. Things have been busy lately, and then I managed to pull out my back on top of everything last weekend. Anyways, back is on the mend and it was a quiet Friday night, so a little garage time was due.

Overall the engine looks like its never been split, and apart from the case pitting and a buggered up drain plug threads, looks like it should be a decent base. I'm impressed at how obviously old, drove hard and put up wet the engine was, and then how good the main bearing saddles look. A type 1 would never look this good considering. The only obvious problem found on tear down was two bent pushrods...

Anyways, I got it all torn down and have the case halves back together ready for a good scrubbing to get the muck and gunk off it. After that it will go through the parts washer, and then I should be able to button up the case and measure everything real good. KThe crank will also get cleaned up and measured too. The heads all have cracks, so they are nice paper weights for the time being, but I'll hold onto the jugs as cores if I go with the go westy 2.2 forged kit on rebuild. As for the rods, the big ends didn't have the obvious clunk like some have seen, but all the bearings show heavy wear and heat. I'll be looking at some new I beams most likely, but may look more into just reworking these and adding better bolts.

For now I'm just in cleaning mode and figuring out epwhat is good and what I want to keep. I've got a line on another local 2.1 that I hope I can pick up to have some more choice in parts. I'll also be reworking the original alternator and intake/plenum/throttle body, and spending time blasting and painting everything.

On to the pics:











Now it's waiting inline for cleaning with my autolina case

[Steve Arndt]

Looking good.

Oh to have my garage door open. Holy crap it is cold here.

[Vee Dub Nut]

Haha.. It's "cold" here too.. It's 38F today

[58Dub]

looks dirty but good.
Ive seen enough winter, ready for some spring time temps

[Vee Dub Nut]

looks dirty but good.
Ive seen enough winter, ready for some spring time temps

Yea it's pretty gunky... Looks to have had some sort of oil leak on the right hand side. Nothing that some elbow grease can't fix though.

[E_bug]

You can always make an oxyboxer in case the pitting is really bad.