Building a Microsquirt Daily Driver

[turbobaja]

Also: Make SURE to properly map VEALS lambda delay.
It's the difference between works ~OK (with default values) or works awesome.

Save it out as a table once done: It doesn't auto-migrate to new projects (not part of the .msq you import)

I'm not sure if I understand how to properly map this table. I let VEALS do a little tuning yesterday, but my warmup enrichment has been messing with the tune significantly, operating at 130-140F most of the time I needed to drop the enrichment ramps down quite a bit. I'm still tweaking the VE and ignition tables, but it's driving really well. Put about 20 freeway miles on it and everything look great with AFR 12.5-13:1 under a load, 15.5-16.5 @ 40kpa cruise w/45° advance @3,300rpm and plenty of power to accelerate to 70mph if needed. Accelerates uphill @ 2,500rpm in 4th @ 60kpa .

Running 3.75 qts of only Mobile 1 5w-30 and still have way too much oil pressure. Hot idle is 25-30psi and it's over 50psi with a quick blip of the throttle. Looking like 0w-20 is in my future .

[MarioVelotta]

Using the lambda table goes something like this,

The lower left bin can be your idle kpa and rpm. The top right can stay the same. WOT and max rpm.

Start by setting your AFR table to what you want as a target. Then change the advanced settings on Veal so it will enable at idle.

With the engine warmed up and running turn on VEAL. Watch what your target is ans the AFR you are hitting. Adjust the delay until you are hitting target. I use this number as the base and keep the the top right the same as a starting point. I like the corners around 150 but each combo is different.

Now highlight the whole table and click the little button in the top right. It will interpolate all the middle ground.

Now it's just a matter of fine tuning the middle ground. Free rev what you can and then drive the rest

[Steve Arndt]

What is the advantage of having a wideband delay table compared to not having one?

[turbobaja]

Awesome, thanks for walking me through that Mario, I'll give it a try this afternoon.

I made a few more rough adjustments and took (2) 15 minute + test drives to give VE Analyzer a chance to make suggestions. The first one was with the stock trumpet installed, second (bottom) one is with the entire trumpet removed from the air filter top housing, just the large oval shaped opening. Slightly different drive loop the 2nd time around where it saw a few trips up to ~4,300rpms and started reading in the low 10:1 AFR area, so it suggested leaning it out considerably in the upper rpm, high MAP areas ( trends the same with the stock trumpet installed vs. not). It also has a very rich (10:1) swing in the midrange light-load area, both tables suggest leaning out the middle of the rev range in these load areas quite a bit also.

[turbobaja]

These are the current VE and Ignition tables.

[MarioVelotta]

The delay table allows you to compensate for different flow rates of heads, and exhaust systems. It allows veal to not use the current VE cell for adjustment. Every engine is different.

[MarioVelotta]

What do you have the cell change resistance set to? Real aggressive changes are made on "Easy". As your tune gets closer to what you want you can make your way upto "Very Hard". That way the mix has to be off through many hits for TS to make a change.

Click that 3D button in the VE table as well. That will really bring out the spots that need to be manipulated. When your doing manual smoothing this view is golden.

The rich swing through the mid range may be Accel Enrichment. You'll have to look at your datalogs to verify.

[Piledriver]

What is the advantage of having a wideband delay table compared to not having one?

short: Because without one, or even using a single delay value, the data will be wrong.
(not correspond to the active cell---Unless you are holding steady on each cell for ~10 seconds)

VEAL can provide fast, repeatable results during normal driving if the delay table is reasonable.
If it's not, the old "garbage in>garbage out" saw applies.
The table isn't part of the msq, it's part of the project, so you have to reimport it if you upgrade FW.

I usually remember this when VEAL starts randomizing my VE table after an upgrade---
With the proper table, the results are repeatable to ~<.2 AFR day>day and even day>night.

Lambda delay can be up to two seconds at idle rpm/MAP.
(this is why CLWBO2 is not recommend at/near idle)
Here's mine, which will probably be much closer than the default if you don't have a Chevy with cast iron log manifolds.

I have an ~equal length tri-Y tubular header on a T4, but the effective runner lengths are about typical for most T1 or T4 header setups.
(specifically, EMW HX replacements and a Bursch 914 exhaust)

I limited my table to the area I want VEAL to work in, idle VE has its own table. Use it.

Piles-VEtable1.png

There was talk of adding a diagnostic mode to ms3 to make getting the delay info easier, I went through many hours of logs to figure out the best values, and still had to do a couple specific "pulls" to get a couple of the points.

[MarioVelotta]

This is the table that worked perfect on that last Porsche 6 cylinder I worked on. Different motor very different needs.



With that said, I have found Veal is great for getting the tune really close. But no replacement for a few strokes of your own to finish it off. I haven't vealed my 1600 at all and am really happy with the results.

You need to have the AFR table setup perfect for it to work good too. It was easier for me to have my foot on the throttle and adjust it where I wanted than picking a cell in TS to target. In the end it's all personal preference. I have never seen 2 MSQ's that where similar in ignition, AFR or VE. Everyone has a style. You just have to get comfortable with something and work it!

[Piledriver]

Be careful of what oils you run as far as zinc%.
Most oils are 800ppm zinc, which is fine if you have roller lifters.
(This includes ~all Mobil oils except for (maybe) the red stripe 20W-50 and TDT 5w40 AKA Delvac1)

Valvoline VR1 is available in a wide variety of viscosities, I run the 10W-10.
their 10W-30 may be thicker or thinner than the Mobil1 BTW.

I'll probably change back over to Rotella-T 5W-40 for the peak heat of a Dallas summer, it worked well at all temps in the past, but I'm running a (dual oringed) 28mm Melling pump now, even neutered it put out a tad too much pressure at cruise.

If you have the stock oil cooler setup, keep an eye on oil pressure at cruise RPM.
If the relief valve is stock, over ~42 PSI the oil cooler gets bypassed.
The temps will rise and little>no oil will get cooled until the pressure drops.

[turbobaja]

What do you have the cell change resistance set to? Real aggressive changes are made on "Easy". As your tune gets closer to what you want you can make your way upto "Very Hard". That way the mix has to be off through many hits for TS to make a change.

Click that 3D button in the VE table as well. That will really bring out the spots that need to be manipulated. When your doing manual smoothing this view is golden.

The rich swing through the mid range may be Accel Enrichment. You'll have to look at your datalogs to verify.

Cell Change Resistance is on Normal so far. The rich swing during the ~mid kpa range could be Accell enrichment, but it has a very odd swing extremely rich in very low kpa in the mid rpm range. It will just sit at 10-11:1 during very light throttle cruise and into decell above ~12% throttle. Really weird, and might be related to my timing increase through that rpm/kpa range. Hopefully just leaning out those cells a ton will get it right. I set up the AFR Targets to lean out during low MAP cruising to match where I advanced the ignition.

I'm gonna see how it drives on the VE table suggested w/out the intake trumpet for sh!ts a giggles. Might go back the the "current tune" before giving VEAL a shot and setting up the Lambda Delay.

Thanks everybody for sharing your experience and suggestions, this is turning out to be a lot more enjoyable and educational than I ever expected!

[Piledriver]

VEAL will ignore accel events, and can be told to work only above a given temperature, MAP or RPM, or even based on ($ANYTHING) using custom filters.

You can turn the accel enrichment off, it's generally a good idea to do so until you have the VE table reasonably calibrated.

Note that the AFR targets are really independent of the VE table: If the injector dead time etc are right the calculated results/AFR from an AFR target change will be pretty much dead on IME. (This is also indirectly how to derive injector dead time lacking hard data)

This requires enabling "include AFR target", which IIRC is now the default.

[turbobaja]

Be careful of what oils you run as far as zinc%.....

If you have the stock oil cooler setup, keep an eye on oil pressure at cruise RPM.
If the relief valve is stock, over ~42 PSI the oil cooler gets bypassed.
The temps will rise and little>no oil will get cooled until the pressure drops.

From what I've read/heard, Mobile 1 5w-30 has plenty of the anti-wear characteristics required to keep a mild cam with CB single springs, stock valves/pushrods and lightweight CB lifters alive below 4,500rpm. However, it's definitely way too thick for this tight little engine with a 26mm pump. I'm a firm believer in keeping stock T-1 cooling and oil control intact if possible. I have a mechanical oil pressure gauge on the engine temporarily to see what kind of oil it's going to like. It's definitely bypassing the cooler most of the time while driving. Still, the filter/dipstick are no where near hot enough to worry about after beating on it, and the CLT TC bolted to the #3 intake manifold stud won't go over 150F driving hard @ freeway speeds. It does creep up to 160F idling in traffic after blasting down the freeway. Really wish I had a TC under a spark plug on this engine to verify combustion chamber temps. I had to set warm up enrichment to stop @ 120F because it won't get above 130F just cruising around town (T-stat/ flaps wide open, 100% factory tin in place).

[Steve Arndt]

I just hold each load point at constant conditions and map it to what AFR I want. It takes about three years and 10,000 gallons of fuel at my rate...

[Steve Arndt]

Be careful of what oils you run as far as zinc%.....

If you have the stock oil cooler setup, keep an eye on oil pressure at cruise RPM.
If the relief valve is stock, over ~42 PSI the oil cooler gets bypassed.
The temps will rise and little>no oil will get cooled until the pressure drops.

From what I've read/heard, Mobile 1 5w-30 has plenty of the anti-wear characteristics required to keep a mild cam with CB single springs, stock valves/pushrods and lightweight CB lifters alive below 4,500rpm. However, it's definitely way too thick for this tight little engine with a 26mm pump. I'm a firm believer in keeping stock T-1 cooling and oil control intact if possible. I have a mechanical oil pressure gauge on the engine temporarily to see what kind of oil it's going to like. It's definitely bypassing the cooler most of the time while driving. Still, the filter/dipstick are no where near hot enough to worry about after beating on it, and the CLT TC bolted to the #3 intake manifold stud won't go over 150F driving hard @ freeway speeds. It does creep up to 160F idling in traffic after blasting down the freeway. Really wish I had a TC under a spark plug on this engine to verify combustion chamber temps. I had to set warm up enrichment to stop @ 120F because it won't get above 130F just cruising around town (T-stat/ flaps wide open, 100% factory tin in place).

Here are the numbers.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/Mot ... _Guide.pdf

I have been running 0-40 M1 and Love it. Very quiet valve train compared to brad pen, better pressures than the Amsoil before that.