Home made rotisserie

[GS guy]

Well I dragged the old engine stand from outside shed into the (much warmer!) basement workshop to get a good look at it. It's an older model and already has 3 very tiny swivel casters underneath. One thing right off is the rear base tube (with fixed wheels on your stand) seems a bit too short relative to the chassis width/size. Since it's just bolted to the other parts, I think first thing is I'll replace it with one about a foot or so longer. Then I can weld on mounting plates and add larger casters. Looks like the upper yoke tube is 90* to the upright rectangular section, so I'll probably do a pie-cut near the base as you did to make the rectangular tube 90* to the base tubes, bringing the yoke back parallel to the base. That's my first quick-look and thoughts. Not a super easy way to extend the vertical support? 1.5" x 3" rectangular, probably 11ga like the other tubes. Thinking I'd have to section in some like size tubing, but not too easy to reinforce the butt welds with a tight fitted telescoped piece inside (nothing standard that size). My old stand doesn't have the short reinforcement piece at the base, so if I need to extend I'll probably completely remove the tube at the base and add in any extension between base piece and vertical tube (vs simpler pie cut and re-welding 3 sides). Lets cross that bridge once I see what is needed!

DSC00413.JPG

Jeff

[Ol'fogasaurus]

To state the obvious the lay back to the vertical piece is for the deflection when the engine/it's weight are loaded onto the stand. With two stands supporting weight then deflection becomes mostly (but probably not completely) negative. I don't remember what engine weight my stands were rated at but with the doublers to the side and in the front they were probably a heavier duty ones.

Its going to be interesting to watch your build as you do have a different bird for sure.

Lee

[GS guy]

Lee, Do you happen to recall if the vertical posts on your stands were the same wall thickness (1/8, 11ga) as the horizontal legs?
I picked up a new stand from HF today, exactly like the ones you pictured. So the design has changed a bit since my old one, although external tube sizes are the same. I'm seeing basically 4 modifications for what I want: 1) lengthen the bottom back T tube to about 3.5ft or so for better balance, 2) add casters to this piece at the ends, 3) square up and lengthen the vertical 1.5x3" post about a foot, and 4) slide and bolt a length of strut channel into the facing lower leg tubes to tie the two stands together. The newer stand design complicates this last part as that tube sits on top of the lower rear tube, where my old stand it is the same height. Looks like I'll be hacking up the new stand a little more than originally planned!
Looks like I'll be firing up the band saw tomorrow.
Jeff

[Ol'fogasaurus]

The vertical post is sealed top and bottom by the tube for the pivot and the angle iron for connecting the legs together. I did measure the leg with the caster in it and it was 0.125 and the axle was 0.135; both were seamed tubes.

https://www.harborfreight.com/750-lbs-c ... 61238.html

This is what my stand looked like and, other than the wheels, it looks pretty much the same. I think designs do change as well as manufacturers. What was good yesterday will come back some time in the future... as always happens but too late for today .

Lee

[GS guy]

I did some exploratory "surgery" on the new HF 750lb engine stand, specifically severing the vertical post from the base.
So the sealed vertical steel is a bit odd-ball in size. Wall thickness matches the lower legs at 0.120" (11ga), but the outer dimensions are slightly larger than std. tube sizes (here in USA anyways). It measures 1.61" x 3.17" (possibly nominally 40mm x 80.5mm?). Whatever, I'm sure standard 1.5" x 3" 11ga tube will serve fine to extend the post. For the base, after looking at both my "old" and the new stand design, it looks far easier to just back-date the new stand to match the old - in particular how the vertical post attaches to base and the T-leg attaches to lower cross-leg.
Here's a comparison shot showing the old stand still assembled with severed vertical post base and T-leg clamped to the lower cross leg:

DSC00431.JPG

The old stand vert. post and T-leg both cross bolt to the base cross-leg via welded on angle steel interface pieces. The new stand also uses an angle steel interface piece, but only uses 1 bolt to attach to both the cross-tube, T leg and vertical post (a significant manufacturing cost-saving measure I'm sure....).

I'm going to use the "old design" idea on both stands, installing a new longer cross-tube on both stands (for stability), then sectioning/lengthening and adding new 2" angle to the base of both vertical posts. Finally I'll add another short length of 2" angle to the T-leg of the new stand so it can attach directly to the cross-tube (as on the old stand). This will get the T-legs at the same height and bring uniform design to both stands.
I'll probably add a 45* brace between vertical post and T-leg on both stands for good measure. I want to make sure when not in use I can easily break down the stands into some kind of flat package that can be easily stored (hung on the wall?) as I too don't have unlimited shop space!
Jeff

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Happy to see you do a good pix post on this as I am sure others are more than interested based on searches on the subject.

Lee

[GS guy]

Raw materials supply. Picked up a couple pieces (angle, flats) from Home Depot, got the tubes from local metals supplier. First time I'd been to this supplier and probably should have gotten the other bits from them too and saved a few $$, lots of discounted off-cuts to choose from.

DSC00436.JPG

Also picked up these 4" casters from HD, should make it easier to roll everything around.

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I'd be cutting metal today except I wrenched my back yesterday working in the yard, so no lifting today. Also my belt sander is down, while doing some PM I noticed a bearing going bad. Found a replacement on Amazon, except I screwed up and didn't select the 2-day shipping. It won't be here until Monday next week. DOH! Oh well, that'll give me time to get all the pieces cut and ready for beveling and later welding.

I determined I'm going to make the lower cross leg 3.5 ft. (42 in.) long. This is about a foot wider than original. For the vertical post, with some tape measuring, eyeballing and squinting for good measure, I'm going to make the distance between the top of the cross leg to CL of the yoke pivot 34 in. This "looks" like it will give me enough height to pivot the chassis 360*, while still keeping it short enough to not need a ladder to work on it! That's about 7 in. higher than original. While at the depot I took a good look at the strut channel - looks perfect to span between the two stands. I'll be picking that up later.

For now, just need to pick up a couple gussets from A&A for bracing the vertical post to the base. With any luck we'll get a few more days of unseasonably warm weather (like yesterday) and I can drag out my welding gear to put it all together. Tough to weld when you're shivering from the cold!
Jeff

[Ol'fogasaurus]

"Tough to weld when you're shivering from the cold!"

Yeah, its 17° here right now. Its now looking like snow again this weekend and the possibility of another spit in a week or so. We don't get much cold weather here in the winter but this year is one of the exceptions I guess.

Do you need any dimensions? Not a problem if you do as a quick trip to the garage wouldn't be a problem.

We don't get discounts at the salvage yard as far around here so your lucky.

Lee

[GS guy]

Thanks Lee. Had a couple days of warmer weather so tried to take care of some outside work. We're dropping back to typical temps over the next couple of days. I won't drag my welding stuff out unless it's about 50F, plus little to no breeze since I'm working outside under a carport. When those special days arrive I have to be ready! No time to waste "fitting" or making parts - needs to be ready for joining. I'll have everything cut and fitted over the next few days - so if we get a good day next week I can make some sparks.
Jeff

[GS guy]

Ok, spent some time cutting metal and drilling holes! I managed to get one stand mocked up, nothing welded yet but most of the parts fitted together. Seeing a couple of bugs needing to be worked out.
One is the difference in overall outer dimension between the 'imported' vertical post and available domestic 1.5x3 in. tubing. It's darned near 1/8" larger in both dimensions than the domestic stock. Probably use a heavy bevel on the stand post and small bevel on the extension piece to prep for butt weld. Also more effort "jigging" the two together to semi-even out the offset sizes while still holding both parts in a straight line. Much more PITA than simple clamping down to a flat surface with a straight edge!
2nd thing is overall height. With the extended neck and taller casters, I'm thinking she's sitting a wee bit too high at the pivot yokes, with too much wasted space between bottom of stand and floor. Time to get 'er down in the weeds! New strategy is to locate the T-leg below the cross leg (opposed to in-line as it is currently, or above it with the newer HF design). Plenty of room below, then I can shorten the vertical posts a corresponding 2 in. That should do it, while maintaining the same 34 in. between yoke and T-leg. Another benefit this provides is since the T-leg will now be open on both ends, the adjustability between both stands is unlimited as the connecting strut channel will be able to "slide through" both ends!

Just a few more pieces to cut and fit, then lots of "quality time" with the angle grinder and flap wheels to prep for welding. Unfortunately, that part may have to wait a bit - the weather's heading south this weekend.

Shaky preliminary mock-up:

DSC00439.JPG

Jeff

[Ol'fogasaurus]

DSC00439[1] copy.jpg

If I am understanding what you said correctly there is a space between the two tube sizes (metric vs. SAE). Could you use thinner flat stock to shim the two to four flat spots in order to get a tight non-flexible join and take some of the loading off the weld itself.

sleeved[1].jpg

Kind of like:

Lee

[GS guy]

They will butt together Lee - visualize one being 1/8" larger (both dimensions) and 0.125" wall thickness. If evenly spaced all around there's about a 1/16" overhang one vs. the other (actually closer to 0.050"), not enough of a size difference to be a telescoping fit. Due to the "nominal" nature of welded tubing, angles not exactly 90*/walls not perfectly straight, the overhang varies a bit from point to point. In the pic the original tube is simply sitting on top of the new section. I thought about a sleeve, but it would have to be all custom made to give a nice fit between both sizes, like a machined & stepped box tube, or stepped heavier wall extension piece. I don't think it's really worth that much effort. A good weld will more than hold anything I'll use it for. It should work fine for any buggy or VW chassis work, not so well trying to fit a complete (stripped) car body - even something compact.
Jeff

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I thought it looked like a butt fit but just wasn't sure; you did say "sitting on top" though. Best to be careful when giving advice if one is not 100% sure .

The main thing I worry about, at least with mine, there seem to be occasions that it want's to flip/rotate to the next hole in the pivot and sometimes it goes fast and hits hard if I am not careful.

It was OK and well balanced when it was just the pan but when the weight of the body lift was added then it got a bit top heavy. The pan trying to take over has happened a couple of times over the years but not often as I am usually pretty careful.

Lee

[GS guy]

Appreciate your thoughts Lee. Keeping the load balanced at the rotation center is going to be a trick - not quite sure how I'm going to do that just yet? I sort of need some kind of adjustable mount to start off with, something I can lift the frame with at a single point at each end which allows some rotation about those points. Guessing some kind of temporary yoke mounting I can lift by and test the balance? Then adjust pivot vs. frame up or down to get reasonable balance. On both ends. Figuring that part out is a ways down the road, but stewing in the back of my mind.
Jeff

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Yep, yep and yep!

Lee