How much tire is too much tire?

[eskamobob1]

Hey guys,

So I honestly didnt realy know where to put this, but because I am upgrading wheelsize and tires largely for handling I figured I would try here. Here is my dillema

When measuring last night to see exactly how much space I have for wheel and tires (assuming stock or close to stock height) I realized that you can fit some seriously beefy tires on the back end of a bug without any poke. From what I can tell, I can pretty comfortably run up to 195/65R15s (assuming ET35+ on 5.5" wheel) and 255/60R15s (whatever offset I need for a max poke of 2.25").

In the foreseeable future I will not be going over very moderate power in my bug (probably sub-100 HP and absolutely for sure sub-150, but aiming for 90 or so). At what point, with such little power, will I have so much tire that I will significantly decrease performance (handling)? Also, at what level of size difference between front and rear will it be basically impossible to get rid of understeer without 100% ruining the ride quality? Due to the super low (for high profile tires at least) tread count, would 195/65R15 Toyo Proxes 1 on all 4 corners already be to much tire for handling (I am a little worried about low speed steering with them tbh)?

Im realy sorry for the kind of sproatic post but I am having some difficulty putting my questions into words. Thanks for the help in advance.
-esk

[V8Nate]

I run a 215 65 15 in the rear and a 155 80 15 in the front and have found that to be damn near a perfect setup for every day driving and taking corners fast:) all on a 5.5 in rim

[Bruce2]

... and 255/60R15s ...

An enormous tire like that will not fit under a stock fender, regardless of wheel offset.

[V8Nate]

... and 255/60R15s ...

An enormous tire like that will not fit under a stock fender, regardless of wheel offset.

I ran a 255 60 on a stock 4.5 rim and it fit under the stock fender... just didn't like being so close to the spring plate:)

[eskamobob1]

... and 255/60R15s ...

An enormous tire like that will not fit under a stock fender, regardless of wheel offset.

lol man. I swear you are right, but I have measured 4 times and done the hand calcs as well as used online calculators and a 255/60R15 should just barely fit. That said, I dont plan on going anywhere near that wide at all. In fact I think I am going to order my wheels and tires today and just go with the proxes and a square setup. At the very least they wont be bad tires and stance and I can change to a different setup latter if I want to (they are only $100 a tire, so not all that bad tbh)

[PhillipM]

With only 100hp to play with, I'd imagine even a 195 would be on the realms of starting to slow the car down from the extra rotating weight more than the benefit from the extra grip it offers.

[Bruce2]

... and 255/60R15s ...

An enormous tire like that will not fit under a stock fender, regardless of wheel offset.

I ran a 255 60 on a stock 4.5 rim and it fit under the stock fender... just didn't like being so close to the spring plate:)

You mean rubbing on the spring plate all the time.
Those are 4" wheels.

I'll say this, it's pointless to put such a wide tire on a narrow wheel. The sidewalls will be flopping around like crazy, and it'll handle like crap. But I guess since it's a swing axle......

[V8Nate]

... and 255/60R15s ...

An enormous tire like that will not fit under a stock fender, regardless of wheel offset.

I ran a 255 60 on a stock 4.5 rim and it fit under the stock fender... just didn't like being so close to the spring plate:)

You mean rubbing on the spring plate all the time.
Those are 4" wheels.

I'll say this, it's pointless to put such a wide tire on a narrow wheel. The sidewalls will be flopping around like crazy, and it'll handle like crap. But I guess since it's a swing axle......

Ah yes they are 4". I did that when I was younger and had some more spare time and extra tires. That sidewall bulge made it look like a drag car to me back then it was definitely a fatty and my little 110hp could still spin em but it gripped the ground (and spring plate) pretty well.lol definitely too much tire for that size of rim

[eskamobob1]

With only 100hp to play with, I'd imagine even a 195 would be on the realms of starting to slow the car down from the extra rotating weight more than the benefit from the extra grip it offers.

I am kinda thinking that as well. I am also a bit worried about my tires sticking too well for how high my ride height is (dont realy plan on dropping it much if at all and am having serious issues with body roll currently) and actually being detrimental to handling if they stick past where the car can actualy handle leaning to

[Steve Arndt]

I have 205/50R17 front and 215/55R17 rear on 17x7 wheels on my bug. It works well. It is plenty of tire for me.

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[H2OSB]

I recently autocrossed my 73 Super with 185 55 15 front/205 55 15 rear on 15x5.5 Sports Bug wheels. Grip and handling was outstanding. Of course I have uprated springs and big sway bars, which, no doubt contributed to the handling. All that with a stock 1600dp engine. I will say the chassis could have handled as well with 3 times the stock HP. It was impossible to break loose, even during runs in monsoon-like rain.

What's funny is more than one person commented on my "tiny little tires" however, I've never considered 205s to be tiny on a Beetle

H2OSB

[eskamobob1]

I recently autocrossed my 73 Super with 185 55 15 front/205 55 15 rear on 15x5.5 Sports Bug wheels. Grip and handling was outstanding. Of course I have uprated springs and big sway bars, which, no doubt contributed to the handling. All that with a stock 1600dp engine. I will say the chassis could have handled as well with 3 times the stock HP. It was impossible to break loose, even during runs in monsoon-like rain.

What's funny is more than one person commented on my "tiny little tires" however, I've never considered 205s to be tiny on a Beetle

H2OSB

Are you lowered at all? I currently run 3/4" front and rear and im thinking about upping my spring rates, but I need to redo my rear suspension first to see if thats where all my body roll is coming from

[H2OSB]

I recently autocrossed my 73 Super with 185 55 15 front/205 55 15 rear on 15x5.5 Sports Bug wheels. Grip and handling was outstanding. Of course I have uprated springs and big sway bars, which, no doubt contributed to the handling. All that with a stock 1600dp engine. I will say the chassis could have handled as well with 3 times the stock HP. It was impossible to break loose, even during runs in monsoon-like rain.

What's funny is more than one person commented on my "tiny little tires" however, I've never considered 205s to be tiny on a Beetle

H2OSB

Are you lowered at all? I currently run 3/4" front and rear and im thinking about upping my spring rates, but I need to redo my rear suspension first to see if thats where all my body roll is coming from

Honestly, yes a bit too much. I need to reindex the rear a bit but I hate doing it so I've tended to let it be. I have 120# springs on coil overs on the front and 944 torsion bars on the back(23.5mm). The rates are REALLY good. I was impressed with how it handled. We were not the slowest car(my son and I shared the car) and if we had more power, we would have annoyed people with faster cars

EDIT: we've gotten off topic, which I apologize for. Bob, please feel free to PM me.

H2OSB

[eskamobob1]

Honestly, yes a bit too much. I need to reindex the rear a bit but I hate doing it so I've tended to let it be. I have 120# springs on coil overs on the front and 944 torsion bars on the back(23.5mm). The rates are REALLY good. I was impressed with how it handled. We were not the slowest car(my son and I shared the car) and if we had more power, we would have annoyed people with faster cars

EDIT: we've gotten off topic, which I apologize for. Bob, please feel free to PM me.

H2OSB

Lol. I was mostly asking because I do have this vauge worry in my mind of my grip being far higher than the force it takes for my car to tip at stock height if I go too sticky (I have some serious bodyroll and have dual 3/4" bars, but I have been told to check my rear suspension to see if thats the issue before I go nuclear on it). Plus seeing max tire you guys thought I was safe with considering my suspension and stance was the whole point of the thread anyways.

Actually a bit OT: As for the 23.5mm bars. Do you think they would be alright for a DD? Ima try them and stock but figured I would ask the thoughts of someone that uses them currently.

[H2OSB]

Re 23.5 bars. Absolutely! The car rides very nicely. When I killed the turbo in my Subaru, I had to daily the Beetle for about 2 months. Never felt like it was too stiff.

I'm actually going with 26mm bars in my other Super. I'm going higher spring rate, smaller sways(19mm stock front with urethane bushings, 15mm 944 rear bar). 150# springs onthe front.

H2OSB