2.9l street engine build

[MegaRookie]

Hello everybody,

Last summer I decided that its time for something else. Got too much used to the power my 1971cc type 4 made some years ago, so I sold the engine and started collecting parts and advise on a stroker build.

Everybody advised me to stay away from 86mm stroke, so I did as much research I could and bought a 86mm crank anyway. The reason is mainly that I would always think, why didn't I buy just a bit bigger crack when I bought for example a 80, 82 or 84mm stroke. So far it was more then a bit of work to make the rods clear the camshaft, but it is not impossible without buying expensive rods when you choose the correct rod length, journal and camshaft.

At the moment the heads are being finished at the workshop which does all the machining (the double springs did not fit), and also sent the crank, flywheel and pulley for balancing, so I thought it was time to start a topic of this build.

The specs:
- 86mm stroke, 2.0l journals
- 104mm cylinders, the extended version, JE pistons (makes 2922cc )
- h-beam rods
- VW heads, machined for the 104mm cylinders, 46x40mm valves, double springs
- Web 86c cam (1" base circle)
- 50mm throttlebodies
- MS2-extra, modified for sequential coil on plugs
- 911 cooling system
- Homebrew stainless steel exhaust

Time for some pictures:

The crank with rods:


Crank and cam inside the case:


All clearanced and bolted together with the heads:


VW Speedshop throttlebodies with Orratech manifolds:


First check how the engine fits in the car:


Building the exhaust:


Finished tack welded exhaust (at the moment my neighbour is working on welding the exhaust.) When the engine is assembled and fitted in the car I will make the muffler part.



For now I start with the standard 4 bolts/cylinder, and see how it works and deal with the (possible) sealing issues. I like the option of modifying the heads to 5 or 6 studs, but when I would modify it, I would first check out how head gaskets etc. will work, before I would do such a modification. If anyone has more info or good experience with studs, rings etc. please feel free to share information, also what your problems were without.

From my experience, so far it looks like its a working combo. If I would do it again, I would reconsider to buy a 86mm crank again. The reason is that its easier, and more lift on the cam is possible. Or I would choose for a cam with less lift and big ratio rockers to compensate..

Next job is finishing the case (cleaning and changing the oil plugs for NPT) and the 911 fanshroud, which was not wide enough.

Wish you all the best!

Mark

[Clatter]

Oh, man, SO stoked to see your build here, been too long since a big/meaty one like this showed up..!


That exhaust looks like the 'Evil Twist' that Jake developed years ago.
Nice short primaries.. Love the V-bands too.. Innovative!
Love to see how this works out, never seen V-bands at the stubs like that.
You made the stubs, too?

Can you show me some pics of your clearancing work?
How much did you have to clearance the rods?

I have never done stroke larger than 78, so I'm all too excited to see..

Whose Rods and piston/cylinders are those?

How much room did those 5.7 rods give between your piston skirts and crank counterweights at BDC?

FWIW, I was taught that you want to do any welding to heads before the seats go in.
Maybe you could weld in the pads, or weld fins together, for six or five studs, before the seats go in,
Then,
If you have to machine for the extra studs, you're already ready.

Perhaps the rigidity the welded pads add will be just enough to keep the heads flat, and then sealed, without extra studs?

Dag,
WIth that big of a motor and straight-cut gears and all,
It's going to be an animal!

[twodollardoug]

Great build. I like the V-bands too. That makes the exhaust removal a snap. No dicking around with the exhaust gaskets.

[wreck]

Very nice , Vee bands are the way to go , I'll never use a bolted flange system again .

[Eddie010]

Whooo nice.... that's Bigggg

[MegaRookie]

Thanks guys!

To be honest, I got the idea of the exhaust from the one that Remmele is selling. The thing was that I had some leftovers in stainless steel tubing, bends, and also the stubs (which came of the (too big) Ahnendorp exhaust I had on my 2l and modified to square flange), so I thought, why not give it a try. The V-bands were most of the costs for the exhaust, but it will really help a lot with assembly/removal.

I have some pictures of the clearancing work, and I will make some more at the assembly of the engine.

The cylinders are stroker version from AA with the "long liner" upgrade (and to be honest I would buy 105mm if they still had them, but due to the problems they had with them they are/were not available at the time I ordered them.) Also the crank and rods are from AA.

I will check the clearance between the crank and piston skirts when the crank is back from balancing. For now I know its more then enough.

Regarding the heads, I know. If possible I would also do the welding before but because I allready had the heads before I had the knowlegde of how big this problem is, I have to solve it afterwards, as good as needed. At my previous 2l I also did welding afterwards for the intakeports, and I had also no problems with it, but we'll see.

I am very curious how this mild street engine will perform.

Best regards Mark

[Wally]

Yeah! Great job Mark! That will be interesting on the dyno at HR

[MegaRookie]

Yeah! Great job Mark! That will be interesting on the dyno at HR

Thanks Walter! I am also very interested what it will do! Because of the "sort of" limit in budget for now I have to work with the standard rockers, so it will not be at it's full potential for the first year, but we'll see! It will be way faster then the "old" 2l anyway

Ps. I have a reinforced type 1 gearbox installed, which will be strong enough for the power on the street, but what is your opinion on the maximum power/torque the standard (90mm) velocity joint can handle? I planned to upgrade them to the 100mm joints I have laying around next winter (or earlier when they break).

Thanks! Mark

[Wally]

With the 280Nm or so they will see, one cannot expect too much from them at those levels. One proper start could kill them, but you never know, you could be lucky

[MegaRookie]

With the 280Nm or so they will see, one cannot expect too much from them at those levels. One proper start could kill them, but you never know, you could be lucky

I don't think that I will take that risk Thanks for the advise. Too bad that the mod I did at restoring the car does not clear the 100mm joints, so it will be a bit more work...

Ps. What do you guys do with the pushrod hole for the original fuel pump? I cannot remember from my previous engine if I installed a loose pushrod or didn't..

Thanks! Mark

[Eddie010]

On the CJ case I used I plugged it. My other engine is an injection case so no hole there.
But people on here say you don t want to plug it..???
But had good oil pressure in that engine...

[Type 4 Unleashed]

Hello everybody,

Everybody advised me to stay away from 86mm stroke, so I did as much research I could and bought a 86mm crank anyway. The reason is mainly that I would always think, why didn't I buy just a bit bigger crack when I bought for example a 80, 82 or 84mm stroke. So far it was more then a bit of work to make the rods clear the camshaft, but it is not impossible without buying expensive rods when you choose the correct rod length, journal and camshaft.

Mark

.

The benefits of an 86 are hard to justify all the issues & potential issues, but if I was to do one now, it would be a 90mm stroke in a Pauter case.

But, you made smart choices, one being the 2.0 ltr jrls, larger jrls just increase clearance issues. I don't think I saw the rod length, but longer rods reduce rod angle and help with lobe clearance, and rods with 5/16 bolts provide more clearance than ones with 3/8 bolts, and AA rods come with 5/16 bolts.

The one thing you couldn't get around was the 1" BC, and I've seen them even smaller. I've come to prefer larger Lobe BC's which means limiting
stroke, so I prefer 80 to 82mm strokes and larger BC cams and larger bores... ... Regardless, you worked out all the issues and did a good job on the build.

I also like V bands, this is the setup I was doing for my exhaust in 90 deg stainless steel bends, and was still looking for 1 3/4" V bands before I put my project on hold. The pipes are 2 3/4" and I had the tail pipe polished, which stainless steel polishes out pretty nice. The muffler I was still working on, template was cut just needed to get material to finish it.

2011_11152750INCHTAILPIPE0001.JPG

2011_10092750INCHTAILPIPE0001.JPG

I liked this 6th stud setup, this was from someone on your side of the pond, but don't remember who ? The 5th & 6th stud tapped into the cyl
spacer, to show whats been done before, for ideas.

Cyl Spacers.jpg

[Arnoud]

Oliver Knuf?PTP?

[Steve Arndt]

Oliver Knuf?PTP?

Yes Power Tuning Parts A.Knuf

That is how mine is setup, 1 steel plate for both cylinders.

[Wally]

Oliver Knuf now works for Kummetat if I understood correctly?

I really like the 4-2-1 style exhaust and I even think I seen it at Engine Plus back in the days when they sold their T1-T4 billet heads for type 4 still. From my understanding the 4-2-1 lay-out will probably not have that very common dip around 3500 Rpm that most 4-1 dyno sheets with bigger cams have.
From both I have now gotten inspiration again, so I'll make exhaust in that idea as well, but with a twist I'll open a topic here for it