Coil over shocks on beam car

[mlrailguy]

I thinking of removing torsion leaves and go with coil over shocks on my sandrail. I have already installed 2 1/4 longer arms for more travel. Car weighs 1180 lbs. Needing to know valve rates and spring weights for best all around performance. I ride on many types of terrain, but mostly dessert trails with lots of whoops and jumps.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I thinking of removing torsion leaves and go with coil over shocks on my sandrail. I have already installed 2 1/4 longer arms for more travel. Car weighs 1180 lbs. Needing to know valve rates and spring weights for best all around performance. I ride on many types of terrain, but mostly dessert trails with lots of whoops and jumps.

The torsion leaves also hold/join the trailing arms together so they don't fall out. Some people, when using a stock beam, just remove the inner lock on each of the tubes of the beam allowing for a more unlimited suspension travel then they can go over to the coil over style of gas shocks (I would have this double checked but it is what I have seen done).

I wish I could help you on the spring weights but there is also dependence on the design of the rail because some rails have almost no weight in front while others are fairly heavy in the front end. Seating number and location ​can also make a difference.

If you already haven't done it or put longer travel shock towers with built in compression limiters built into them on the stock K&L beam you need to put something on to protect things.

Lee

Add'n: This is assuming you are using a K&L beam which stock has a roughly 9" travel while a BJ beam is roughly 5" travel and problems with the lower BJ pulling out of the arms. Both beams need stops.

[mlrailguy]

This is best picture I can find real quick. It is a 96" wheelbase. I can almost lift front myself.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

IMG_0599 (2) copy.jpg

This is from an earlier post of yours.

IMG_0599 (2) copy copy.jpg

Again, the same pix but a closer look at what you have.

By the color and other things it looks like you might have an AL beam (get a magnet to verify). Because of something I think I see I can't tell if it has torsion bars or just something inside to join the 3 arms together (I think that is what it is for but since my AL beam dealing with has been limited so this is a guess). Is the AL beam OK, yes but just like anything else it will probably need the mandatory adjustments such as compression and hang stops of some sort but not necessarily in the beam itself.

The shock looks to be a gas filled shock some use to work as a spring and shock. I used to see this but now days I'm seeing less of it.
Is it a good system, I don't know for sure and the area being ridden in might be a yes or no. If it is a gas shock, you add pressure or remove it gas is either added or removed. I think a lot of places where you get bottled gas probably carries the bottles you might need. I have seen the gas adjusting done but only from a distance as it was more out of curiosity only that I watched it.

You could change over to a coil-over shock system where the spring can be removed to a firmer or softer spring rate depending on the needs and use. Because of the high shock towers some measuring will be needed.

I hope this helps some.

Lee

[PhillipM]

Adjusting gas pressure on a shock with a shaft that small will make very little difference to spring rate, all more pressure will do is wear the seals faster, add more stiction and make the damping work worse, adjusting gas pressure in those is to suit the damping/valving, not for springing, so I'd guess there's still leaves in that beam given the clamps in the middle.
There's a big difference with shocks designed to be used as both springs and shocks, they have huge shaft sizes compared to the body, to displace a lot of oil, those aren't those.

You're really going to need to know what the car weighs front/rear to have any reasonable guess at spring rates, if you go that way, though, RailGuy.
I can lift the front on mine alone but it's probably a lot heavier than yours in terms of sprung weight, unsprung maybe similar. I have 185lb springs on mine but with longer arms, for similar usage, if it gives you a rough idea, but I'd imagine just as a guess from looking at the pics you'd be a little lighter.

[mlrailguy]

I've thought about buying a bathroom scale so I could weigh the frontend. Would I weigh with arms and spindles attached? What about shocks and tires?

[PhillipM]

Ideally weigh it without the wheels, uprights, etc on and weigh it again after so you know what is sprung/unsprung, but you can probably guess tyre/arm/upright/brake weights fairly close anyway.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I've thought about buying a bathroom scale so I could weigh the frontend. Would I weigh with arms and spindles attached? What about shocks and tires?

I pretty much agree with PhillipM on the weighing.

Opinion: as far as the arms and spindles go, unless you are going to replace them with something else leave them on. Shock can be removed as they are going to be replaced (you can weigh the replacements separately then add their weight to the mix) but leave the front tires on as a safety thing then remove them when the front of the rail is on the scale.

Since your pix show you have "baldies" on, they are fairly light weight and especially so with the AL rims their weight which might be important but since you are going to ride in other areas where the "baldies" are not usable the replacement tires and rims will probably come into the frontend weight mix so they can be weighed separately then also add to the "no front tires weight" when and if needed.

Since I have seen this done a couple of times: put the scale on solid ground then put the block, jack stand or what every you decide to use to get the front wheels off the ground (if you don't do this first then it will become an "Oh $#it" embarrassing moment when you realize what you didn't do ) plus any other stuff that might be needed and write that weight down to be deleted later.

Jack the front end up, slide scale and its load under then "gently" let the front of the buggy down to where the rail sits now (as you jack it up higher the front end weight can change [slightly] to the rear which probably isn't a whole lot but just to be accurate) so it is probably best to keep things "as is" and write the weight down minus the wheels and tires (inanimate objects like to wiggle around and settle themselves hence the "gently" thing because you are going to load onto a bathroom scale which itself can move and tip).

Is the "bare" front end weight minus tires necessary... maybe but this way you can weigh the other things separately and add their weight to the mix if and when necessary.

Again, sorry about being so basic on this but I have done similar "whoops" myself and have seen others who should know better make the same mistake also when one gets too "focused" on one thing.

Lee