Type 1 nose cone difference, DSC to SSC?

[nbuscemi]

Quite the conundrum. My 68 sedan, originally an Autostick, was converted to manual by a previous owner. The trans the car came with when I bought it is a Single Sidecover AT code with three bolt nose cone with only a reverse switch. An adapter mount was used to mount on to two bot pan. I recently came across (and purchased) another AT code trans, however this one is dual side cover with a three bolt nose cone with a reverse switch AND a neutral switch. With me so far?

Now I know VW parts are often mis-matched by folks over the years and sometimes this leads to strange problems.

Here's my concern: Is there a difference between the nose cones for a dual side cover and single side cover transaxle? I noticed there was movement in the main shaft bearing in the gear carrier and I feel the nose cone is supposed to limit this movement. Im getting a grinding noise when shifting from 2nd to 3rd gear and I fear this mainshaft movement might be causing it.

Any help would be appreciated!

-Nick-

[John S.]

Sounds like a bolt in swap to me. Just maybe a different ring and pinion ratio. What’s your concern?

[Bruce2]

Is there a difference between the nose cones for a dual side cover and single side cover transaxle?

Yes and no.
The nose cone didn't change with the number of side covers. Therefore, there exists single side cover gearboxes from VW that had 3 bolt nose cones, and some came with 2 bolt nose cones.
Then on the double side cover gearboxes, most came with the two bolt nose cone, some came with the later 3 bolt.

The type of nose cone depends on the main shaft in the trans, the chassis of the car, and if it needs a neutral switch. There exists every combination of these variations except for a 3 bolt nose cone without clearance for the mainshaft bearing's cage.

For your 68, you need a 2 bolt nose cone. But you also need one that clears the plastic cage of the splined mainshaft. The nose cone from a Type 181 is that one. You can modify a 72 and earlier nose cone by clearancing it with a die grinder. I recommend against the adaptor front mount. Use the right stock VW nose cone, then the stock rubber mount.

When you are swapping nose cones, look at where the mainshaft bearing touches the nose cone. If there's an imprint pounded into the nose cone, your mainshaft is sliding back and forth. You need to secure it.

[nbuscemi]

There is definitely clearance for the main shaft bearing as I can move the input shaft back and forth (a few thou of an inch) with the 3 bolt nose cone installed. I'm not sure if this end play is normal or ok, but there is definitely clearance. The main shaft bearing in the gear carrier is able to slide back and forth with the nose cone removed. I've seen a Youtube video where a bolt is added (drilled and tapped) to secure the main shaft bearing.

Here is the video in question for viewing pleasure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYvOUb5lCWo

Is it possible that this bearing movement is causing the poor third gear engagement?

-Nick-

[Bruce2]

It may indirectly. It could be that when the mainshaft was offset to the front, the synchro ring might then be dragging on 3rd gear while you are in 1st or 2nd. This would wear out 3rd gear's synchro. Then cause it to grind.
You should take the nose cone off and look to see how much pounding there is.

See this example:

The area indicated by the yellow dots is the imprint of the bearing in the nose cone. I've seen this nearly 1mm deep before.

The little washer is better than nothing, but it doesn't last long. The bearing race is hardened steel, the washer is mild steel, so it also gets pounded like the nose cone. The area of the contact due to the washer is so tiny.
Here's what I came up with:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds ... id=2390964
My original thought was to use this on the later bearing found with the splined mainshafts since it has less area on its side bearing against the nose cone. The early nose cone and flanged bearing doesn't really need this plate since the area of contact is quite large.

[nbuscemi]

This is definitely an improvement on what was shown in the video I posted. Even if this doesn't fix my third gear problem its still a worth-while upgrade! I'm going to pull the nose cone and check for the "pounded" area.

-Nick-

[nbuscemi]

I pulled the nose cone off of my spare AT code trans to check for wear, and just like you stated... it was pounded out where the main shaft bearing sits. Im going to fabricate a hold-down plate much like yours and see what difference it makes.



Keep in mind, this nose cone is NOT from the trans that's grinding in third. I'll have to pull that unit from the car but I DO plan to mod that trans as well. I figure it can't hurt anything.

-Nick-

[Bruce2]

After you clean up that nose cone, sand it down until the pounded area is gone. Start with 40 or 60 grit on a piece of glass.

[nbuscemi]

I meant to take pictures, but I was in the heat of battle I went ahead and reused the nose cone as is but I installed the bolt and retaining bracket much like your product listed above. I'll end up sanding and add a bracket to my DSC transaxle when I build the courage (not to mention part list) to rebuild it.

I really appreciate the help on this. Just when I thought I knew everything about ACVWs something like this comes along and reminds me that I still have a long way to go.

-Nick-