T4 into a 912

[Squonk]

Having given up convincing the wife on buying a 911, I've decided to go for the second best and buy a 912 project car. Having stumbled across the info on the T4, it seems like something I would like to do. However, the info I have found thus far is centered around T4's in VW's. Can anyone point me in the right direction for putting a T4 into a 912?

Thanks much, David

[Type 4 Unleashed]

One year the 912, I believe was 76 ? came with a Type 4, there is a guy on one of the other boards that has 912 2.0 ltr Type lV tin F/S, and may even have the engine bar ?

I'll find the info and you guys can work out the deal.

And you can Google Porsche 912 Type lV, for info.

[Squonk]

It all depends on how much he wants for 912, but I appreciate your help!

Since posting that message, I've started batting around the idea of maybe dropping a small block Chevy into a 912, though for some reason, it just doesn't seem quite right.

David

[Dave_Darling]

...That's 'cause an SBC in a 912 isn't right!

But it's been done a number of times. The cooling is the real beeyotch. Check out Renegade Hybrids and Rod Simpson Hybrids; they've both done them.

The 1976 912E had a 2.0 914 engine (but with L-jetronic EFI instead of D-jetronic) in a 1976 911 body, much the way the earlier 912s had 356 SC engines in 911 bodies. You can Google on 912E for more info, but there were only 2100 of them made.

The 912E conversion has been done a number of times. You can poke around on the Type 4um here on this site for a couple of people who have. Generally carbs are used, and the 914 engine tin is modified to fit the 912 engine bay. The motor mount bar has to be fabricated or modified. The 914 motor is built to bolt up to a 901-based trans like the 912 already has, so use the 914 bits for that.

It seems like fun; I've seen a few and they looked pretty cool.

--DD

[Squonk]

Yeah, I know. I knew when I posted that I could catch some crap. But like I said, the bucks for a 911 and a 912 are a bit different. And rebuilding a 911 can be expensive. Just a thought banging around.

I think I've found a 912E that is in excellent shape, body and engine. In which case, I won't be messing with the small block chevy at least for a while.

But 350 horses with a low maintenance, easy to work on engine? Tempting.

David

[Piledriver]

Yeah, I know. I knew when I posted that I could catch some crap. But like I said, the bucks for a 911 and a 912 are a bit different. And rebuilding a 911 can be expensive. Just a thought banging around.

I think I've found a 912E that is in excellent shape, body and engine. In which case, I won't be messing with the small block chevy at least for a while.

But 350 horses with a low maintenance, easy to work on engine? Tempting.

David

The low maintenance and easy to work on bits are offset by the realistic conversion costs of stuffing that SBC in there... Not to mention ruining a perfectly good car.

I'd love to have a 911, but the only way I'd own one is with a massaged T4 in it. (so.. 912) largely due to the greatly reduced maintanence.

I drive too much.

[Squonk]

The 912E I'm buying has a solid Type 4 in it, so the conversion idea is being trashed. But I don't agree with the idea of 'ruining' a Porsche because of a conversion any more than I think that putting a pink flamingo in your yard 'ruins' your house. Other people may not like it, but whatever trips your trigger.

[Piledriver]

All I meant was ...If you put Buick V6 or an aluminum V8 in it, the weight bias would be about the same as a /6... The 911 absolutely doesn't need any more weight back there behind the rear axle. (Even one with alloy heads and intake doesn't weigh much more, GM uses a really thinwall iron block)

A V8 oddly makes more sense in a 914, as the weight bias is ~unchanged.
(Purists cringe...)

Some of the V8>911 installs I have seen pics of have had to cut structural members... Fugly. (See Renegades site for pics of how NOT to do it, they have a page for that with graphic examples of fugly installs)

[Squonk]

If you put an aluminum V8 in it, the weight bias would be about the same as a /6... The 911 doesn't need any more weight back there.

A V8 oddly makes more sense in a 914, as the weight bias is ~unchanged.

Yep, that's what Renegade Hybrids website says. Of course, with the cost of the engine and the conversion kit, I think it would cost about $10K to drop in an aluminum LS-1. Of course, then you have 350HP. And Turn Key builds various higher HP engines for incrementally more. Up to 700HP??? Can you imagine?

The advantage I see is ease/cost of maintenance. Of course, with a new engine, you would hoping to avoid maintenance for quite a while.

[Piledriver]

If you put an aluminum V8 in it, the weight bias would be about the same as a /6... The 911 doesn't need any more weight back there.

A V8 oddly makes more sense in a 914, as the weight bias is ~unchanged.

Yep, that's what Renegade Hybrids website says. Of course, with the cost of the engine and the conversion kit, I think it would cost about $10K to drop in an aluminum LS-1. Of course, then you have 350HP. And Turn Key builds various higher HP engines for incrementally more. Up to 700HP??? Can you imagine?

The advantage I see is ease/cost of maintenance. Of course, with a new engine, you would hoping to avoid maintenance for quite a while.

I always keep my eyes open for 944s and 928S with blown motors... THOSE are easy conversions. (and a 928 with an LS1 would absolutely rock)

Even building a nice T4 can get very pricey...

[Squonk]

[/quote]
I always keep my eyes open for 944s and 928S with blown motors... THOSE are easy conversions. (and a 928 with an LS1 would absolutely rock)

Even building a nice T4 can get very pricey...[/quote]

I can't afford to keep my eyes open for anything else right now. There is a chance that I may try to flip the 912E when it gets to me here in Japan. If I do that, it will start a process where I will buy and flip enough to where I can just buy a Porsche with the money I made on the process. But importing a car into Japan is a BIG headache. I'm not sure if I want to do it again. I may just make the 912E my baby and hang on to it.

[Squonk]

[/quote]

Even building a nice T4 can get very pricey...[/quote]

Along those lines, what would you suggest to increase the HP in a T4? Low cost especially. I know I could put a turbo on it, but that would cost what, $3-4K?

[Piledriver]

Even building a nice T4 can get very pricey...

Along those lines, what would you suggest to increase the HP in a T4? Low cost especially. I know I could put a turbo on it, but that would cost what, $3-4K?

An almost stock rebuild with new heads and all decent quality bits and misc can set you back $4K+ easy.

As soon as you get the car..
I STRONGLY suggest you at a minimum send the heads off to Adrian Audirac at Headflow Masters or Len Hoffman at HAM for a rebuild.
(Len preferred, esp if you want serious work or need welding done)

There are a few minor thing that can improve reliabilty in the long run that you should do while the heads are going back on:

Lose the head gaskets. This is damage, installed. Even VW said so.

Solid rocker shaft spacers and 8mm CrMo rocker studs. The side play on these has to be set up by hand, as no 2 are exactly alike. (This is far easier than it sounds on a workbench, in a 914 it is a PITA)

IF you can score 1.7L rocker arms, they have 8mm adj. screws, and can take 911 swivel foot adjusters with very little work, STRONGLY suggested, use only REAL Porsche adjusters, not supposedly "OEM Porsche" ones.

Jake sells some really nice billet 1.7 rockers set up for this, if you have the dough.

Check your deck, this can be done with play-DoH! or plumbing solder with the acid core rinsed out (nice trick, can work through the plug hole)

You might want to get a set of CrMo pushrods and set your rocker geometry up properly. Do Not Mix Up The Lifters.

Esp. with the stock cam, talk to Len about backcutting the ex valves.

Also recommend pulling the rods and having a look at the rod bearings and cam. They are the canaries in the mine to tell you if you need to split theh block...

[Squonk]

[/quote]
An almost stock rebuild with new heads and all decent quality bits and misc can set you back $4K+ easy.
[/quote]

The engine was rebuilt 30-40K miles ago, so I have some mileage left in it. Since making that last post, I went to the Type 4 Store. Looks like I can buy a kit to get it up to 175HP for about $5.5K. Of course, I have to look at the shipping costs to Japan and the fact that it will cost me core charges b/c I can't economically return anything. But a 75% increase in HP ought to do the trick.

[Piledriver]

An almost stock rebuild with new heads and all decent quality bits and misc can set you back $4K+ easy.

The engine was rebuilt 30-40K miles ago, so I have some mileage left in it. Since making that last post, I went to the Type 4 Store. Looks like I can buy a kit to get it up to 175HP for about $5.5K. Of course, I have to look at the shipping costs to Japan and the fact that it will cost me core charges b/c I can't economically return anything. But a 75% increase in HP ought to do the trick.

Great idea to go that route if you can swing the up front cost.

Buying bits here and there WILL usually end up costing more, and all you end up with is (maybe) a full set of bits and pieces, rather than a proven/debugged combination of QC'd parts ready to go together.