Transmission oil type ?

[rickycox]

Hi

Can someone please advise me what grade / type of oil I need to top up my auto transmission box please......

Ricky

[raygreenwood]

SAE 80W/90 Gl-4 or Gl-5
Or
SAE 85W/90 Gl-4 or Gl-5
or SAE-90 Gl-4 or GL-5.

Nothing higher in weight and nothing lower than a straight 80. Do not use a synthetic unless you have changed the differential side seals, input shaft seals and recently resealed the shift housing at the tail cone. Ray

[bradey bunch]

for the auto trannys gear oil can be used for the final drive, but for the transaxle itself, atf (dexron) is recommended. Either I am missing something or Ray assumed it was a 4 speed box.

[wildthings]

90wt GL5 for the final drive and Dextron II for the automatic section.

[raygreenwood]

Its what I get for skimming instead of reading. Yes...its actually Dexron III for teh auto section and the other oils I mentioned for the differential. Ray

[wildthings]

Actually I don't think that either Dexron II or III were available back then, just plain Dexron maybe? Neither Dexron II or III are supposedly available today either, just Dexron VI.

GL-4 is not specified for the final drive on an automatic, though it probably wouldn't hurt much of anything to use it. I would be tempted to run one of the newer GL-4 rated ATF's in either a VW manual and both boxes of an automatic, but haven't to date.

[raygreenwood]

Dexron III has been available since at least the mid to late 70's and is equivalent to Mercon -1. It is listed in the books for these transmissions.

Here is a a castrol history and spec sheet i dug up http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_in ... B1191.pdfI have never used Dexron 2. Ray

[wildthings]

According to this article Dexron II first came out in 1973.

http://tinyurl.com/ye33zuf

And this article dates Dexron III as coming out in 1993.

http://www.lifeautomotive.com/pdfs/history_of_atf.pdf

Both Dexron II and Dexron III were mostly backwards compatible as is Dexron VI.

There are arguments for using Type F fluid is you want a little harder shift.

[raygreenwood]

Nope...Dexron 3 has been around for ages. I got my first 411 in 1979. It used exclusively Dexron 3. Dexron 2 had already been largely superceded by that time...by Dexron 3 and Mercon. Dexron is a GM trade name. I found anotehr reference to the early 90's in a pennzoil article that simply stated that for certain transmissions of the early 90's....GM went BACK to specifying Dexron 3 because of either a temperature issue with reference to viscosity or something similar. Who knows the whole answer. But.....I actually have receipts going back all the way through the 80's for my gold 412 for dexron 3.....before I got lucky and found a four speed for it . Ray

[wildthings]

Here are the most detailed information I can find on GM ATF. According to this Dexron III replaced Dexron II in 1994.

The DEXRON standards are:
-Suffix A, indroduced 1957, expired.
-DEXRON B, 1967, expired
-DEXRON II (C), 1973, expired
-DEXRON II (D), 1981, expired
-DEXRON II (E), 1991, expired
-DEXRON III (F), 1994, expired
-DEXRON III (G), 1997, expired
-DEXRON III (H), 2005, expired 2006
-DEXRON VI, since 2006.

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:jr ... clnk&gl=us

In no manuals that I have lying around with a publication date earlier than 1994 can I find any mention of Dexron III. It is not mentioned in any of my rear engine VW literature, published as late as 1991.

[raygreenwood]

Interesting.....I'll have to check my receipts....but bear in mind, those are GM USAGE standards for GM....not manufacturing dates. GM was not the only one using DEXRON and they actually manufactured none of it, they just registered the product name and that fact appears to be one of the discrepancies I find all over the place on the web concerning DEXRON usage date. Is it from GM's point of view and usage...or everyone else;s? You may be 100% correct. But I'm pretty sure dexron III has been around longer than 1994. Ray

[david58]

GM
Dexron III is the fourth in the Dexron series of GM transmission fluids. The original Dexron blend was released in 1967. It was succeeded in 1973 by Dexron II, which offered customers double the oxidation stability. Dexron IIE, which improved upon the oil base of Dexron II, was introduced in 1990. GM upgraded IIE to Dexron III"F" in 1994 for new electronic transmissions introduced in 1992-3. In 1996, GM powertrain introduced electronically controlled converter clutches (ECCC). They were used in limited production of 3,000 vehicles per day in 1997 and in all GM automatic transmission platforms in 1998. Unfortunately the aftermarket Dexron-III specification ("F" level) did not incorporate a test to evaluate fluid performance with the ECCC system. The initial test GM vehicle for the ECCC system was 1997 Buick Rivera with a 3800 supercharged engine, and 4T65-E transmission.

GM has now developed and requires an upgrade Dexron-III specification ("G" level) to meet the requirements of the ECCC system. GM has factory-filled all their transmissions with this "G" level fluid since 1997. GM's new "G" level replaces and supercedes all previous Dexron-III levels ("F", "E", Dexron-II, Dexron etc.). Dexron-III "G" is required for all ECCC GM systems. GM move to Dexron IV for the future has been put on hold.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/833909-post39.html
I can't believe Dexron III isn't older either. Ray I think were losing it. I thought it came out in the mid 70's.

[raygreenwood]

Yep..Wildthings is right. I found both my receipts and the original whitepaper from the GM engineers from 1974 when Dexron 2 was a prototype.
The type 3 and 4 Borg Warner systems actually called for type "R"....which is what became Dexron 2 when additives to stabilize viscosity and temperature were added.
Dexron 2 then became Dexron III when further changes were added to make what GM called a "lifetime fill" fluid for Borg Warner type and turbo hydra matic systems. They then stated that Dexron III is 100% backward compatible with everything.....which is where all of the arguing starts among manufacturers from what I can see. Learn something every day! Ray

[MGVWfan]

BTW, I've got 30K miles on an overhaul using Castrol Import Multi-Vehicle, P/N 12063 (quart size), exclusively. Says on the bottle it meets the requirements of ATF+3 and previous (MoPar), Mercon and Mercon V (Ford), Dexron III and previous (GM), and Honda, Toyota, Nissan, and BMW auto trannies. No issues. Excellent shift quality, shifts firmly and with precision just like a VW should.