First 412 buy ! + project thread

[Wally]

I'll use this a bit as my project thread and post a pic of the 'redone' right rear quarter (some fender edge welding) with the 7,5Jx18 wheels from the (front of the) bug. I was amazed how well these fitted. Pity I don't have 4 in that width..

[Bill K.]

Those look great! They really fill out the arch nicely. What is the offset and tire size?

I see the rear bumper tow hitch with steel bumper. Did you convert the front bumper to steel as well?

I like your decals. Also, is the VW-412-S deck lid emblem stock? If not, what did you use to add the "S"?

Cheers, Bill

[Wally]

Those look great! They really fill out the arch nicely. What is the offset and tire size?

Hi Bill,
Thanks mate
Its the front wheel of my bug: 7,5x18 ET52

I see the rear bumper tow hitch with steel bumper. Did you convert the front bumper to steel as well?

No, steel is stock over here
I would rather have the alu ones as they are mucho lighter I'am sure.

I like your decals. Also, is the VW-412-S deck lid emblem stock? If not, what did you use to add the "S"?

Cheers, Bill

[/quote]
Yes, the emblem VW412S is stock and also original for this car. The non-L version, but with the stronger engine was not ordered often
It was eitehr 412, 412S or 412LS. Never seen just an 'L' s in 412L

[Wally]

Unfortunately, I had to sell the 412 as our family needed an even more comfortable long distance daily driver. Its been a great time and I had the best of fun and responses on the car when i/we drove it.
These are the last pics I made from 'Yellowbird' with its white front turn lenses. Enjoy and CU all around sometime.

regards,
Wally.

[raygreenwood]

Thanks for all of your input and a nice car Wally! You are going to miss it....I guarantee it. Every period of time I have not owned a daily driver type 4.....within about 3 months I start looking for another.

By the way...what does that script on the front passenger side fender say? Ray

[Wally]

Tnx Ray.
That decall/sticker is an official 'Gumball 3000' sticker. We had a race here a few years ago with aircooleds only into germany (no speed limit) with an aircooled garage/shop as the finish and I installed both of them for that occasion (and two larger ones that I have removed). The small ones sort-off stayed on the fenders to memorise that race
Google Gumball 3000 and you'll find out what the original race is like

[raygreenwood]

If its anything like the "movie"....the gumball ralley...it should be a blast! Ray

[Bill K.]

Oh man, you sold it with those lenses? They look sweet. "We" would have loved them. What did it sell for? Family first, Bill

[raygreenwood]

Oh...a question for you Wally....since you have now been on those Porsche alloys for some time, have you had any wheel bearing problems at all with that offset style? If there are no problems it opens up a wider choice range for our cars. Ray

[Wally]

Oh...a question for you Wally....since you have now been on those Porsche alloys for some time, have you had any wheel bearing problems at all with that offset style?

Ray, you of all people I thought would not have believed the 'tale of the wheel bearing failure because of wider rims' that has been spread since the seventies?

But seriously (and to bust that myth for once and for all), I have used new disks on the front from the moment I got the car and have used the OLD wheel bearings from the old disks and put them in the new disks! With those old used and refitted wheel bearings I have ran these rims for over 70.000 miles (>100.000 km's) over the last 3 years: no problems at all.

On the rear, when I got the car, one bearing made a noise (I openend a topic on that in this sub-forum) and turned out it was a damaged (initially by rust from long standing probably) outer shell of the bearing. I ONLY replaced the outer bearing shell for a used one from another 412 With those well used and cross matched rear bearings I ran these wide wheels for the same 70K miles and again no problems at all.

So, imho, you can use pretty much any wheel width and ET combo you like

[raygreenwood]

Oh...a question for you Wally....since you have now been on those Porsche alloys for some time, have you had any wheel bearing problems at all with that offset style?

Ray, you of all people I thought would not have believed the 'tale of the wheel bearing failure because of wider rims' that has been spread since the seventies?

But seriously (and to bust that myth for once and for all), I have used new disks on the front from the moment I got the car and have used the OLD wheel bearings from the old disks and put them in the new disks! With those old used and refitted wheel bearings I have ran these rims for over 70.000 miles (>100.000 km's) over the last 3 years: no problems at all.

On the rear, when I got the car, one bearing made a noise (I openend a topic on that in this sub-forum) and turned out it was a damaged (initially by rust from long standing probably) outer shell of the bearing. I ONLY replaced the outer bearing shell for a used one from another 412 With those well used and cross matched rear bearings I ran these wide wheels for the same 70K miles and again no problems at all.

So, imho, you can use pretty much any wheel width and ET combo you like

I always figured it was BS...I just never had the personal experience with it to know 100% for sure, but having worked on many front wheel drive cars ...and owned a few.....I knew that the the rear wheel bearings for FW drive are set up identical in nature to what we use on the fronts of our WCVW's....and there is no adverse problem.

To be fair to where the legend came from...there were indeed many problems with wheels cantilevered this far from the bearing....in the first front wheel drive cars...and alsmost strictly in the US
but "good" mechanicss figured out fairly quickly that this mainly came from very heavy vehicles and very poor adjument specs. If you leave excessive slop in the pre-load on ANY wheel bearing you get ugly wear on the rollers when cornering. That just gets multiplied when the wheel is cantilevered out further. It was never the wheel...it was the mechanic. Ray

[jan72]

Sort of related: what ET do the stock type 4 wheels have? Is it 46 - like type 3's? (i couldn't find this anywhere)
Thanks.

[Bill K.]

I have 42mm in my notes. See this page for a comparison between stock 412 front and my setup. I factored in offset differences for the 944 hub as part of the Cayenne wheel offset to get the effective offset. Be sure to check both sides of your car when messing with offset because the chassis are typically shifted to the left - the fender to wheel gap is smaller on the right side.

[raygreenwood]

Yes...that "cast" that Bill is mentioning is not only variable.. depending upon direction as you pull into a parking place, but the suspension bushings take a set over the years depending upon how the car was loaded. I don't yet know if the delrin bushings will do that.

Also on the 411/412...you will notice in the specs...that the rear wheels do not have teh same track width as the front. If memory serves...its narrower...so be careful in your measurements.

Also after you have the whole rear end apart, be sure to carefully measure. As you will notice, for various reasons... the rear track width is adjustable at the trailing wishbones. Make sure you get it split right or your tracking will suffer. Ray

[ubercrap]

Sort of related: what ET do the stock type 4 wheels have? Is it 46 - like type 3's? (i couldn't find this anywhere)
Thanks.

I think there may have been different ET's on early and late Type 4's. The very late 412's I have or have parted I know have the lower 40's ET, no the 46 ET wheels. I've never had or looked at what the 411's had.