Bonemaro's '73 Ghia

[Bonemaro]

Mmmmm, lowered a tad.

[Bonemaro]

Ok, yes I'm bored, but while rotating my tires, I though... Corvette wheels on the Ghia. True, they would never fit without extensive body modification, but I thought they looked cool.

[Marc]

You'd have an easier time finding Porsche (5x130 PCD) rims to fit - most of them come with a ton of backspace, enough that in most cases spacers are required, so rather than bodywork you need to concern yourself with clearance to the snubber pads and the heads of the springplate bolts. 7" is usually fairly easy to fit; I haven't tried to shoehorn 8" under 'Ghia rear fenders but it could be possible....and there's a pretty wide selection of styles out there, often for quite a bit less than the cost of aftermarket custom rims (which are probably nowhere near as good strength- and quality-wise).

https://www.google.com/search?q=boxster ... =730&dpr=1

[Bonemaro]

Yeah, I need to get up under there and do some measuring and scope out the available adapters to see what combo I can come up with. If I could squeeze a 16x7 in there, it would make for many options.

[Bonemaro]

I see these are 17x7.5 5x130.



I wonder. They have a hella backspace too, perhaps enough to keep the center hub bolt from protruding. I'd probably get EmblemPros to make me some nice Wolfsburg center caps.

[Bonemaro]

I just jacked up the car, pulled the wheels, loaded the suspension and took some measurements. Looks like I can safely have 5" of backspacing before I hit anything and 2.5" on the front side.

I'm showing the original equipment tire for this car being a 165/80 15, which should be about 25.4" tall. Tire racks shows an alternate size of 185/65 15, which is 24.5" tall.

This wheel:



It is a 17 x 7.5 with a 6.26" backspace. If my calculations are correct, then if I installed with wheel using a 1.26" adapter, it would fit my Ghia perfectly. This assumes I'm not lowering it. I could also run a 205/50 17 tire and be 25.1" tall.

Does this sound feasible? 7.5" is still really close though. Maybe 7" would be better... Plus, I'm concerned about hiding that big ol' axel nut.

[helowrench]

I am putting MAhle 4X130 patters 5.5 wheels off of a 914 onto my Ghia, hopefully this weekend.
205/60-15 Ohtsu (Falken Ziex 512) fit nicely.
I purchased a single, and had it mounted to allow me a test fit before I dropped the whole price.
Test fit over the weekend went well. At least 1/2" clearance everywhere. T/A bolts, bump stop, fender lip. all were good.

[Bonemaro]

Judging what you saw with the 5.5"ers, do you think I have a remote chance with 7.5"?

[Marc]

Before you commit you should finalize what you'll be doing with the rear brakes. It's no biggie to get `68-up rear drums with a 5x130 PCD (either by redrilling/studding 4x130 drums or starting with a blank)....fit `65-up Beetle front wheel cylinders, and semi-met shoes (the forward ones, anyway) and they'll provide pretty decent balance with the stock front discs. These days when new calipers are needed for a `Ghia the standard solution is to fit some Brazilian-made repros of the `66-early`71 Type III caliper, which is a little bigger. Stock Type III rear drum brakes make for a good match with those, but they do add slightly to the track width. The original steel-center composite drums don't add very much at all, but all you can find new these days is Brazilian cast units that are about 1/8" thicker.
If you'll be running substantially (say, 30mm) wider rubber on the rear, the Porsche 924/944 rear disk brakes provide decent balance when paired with the `66-`71 III fronts and they're nearly a bolt-on...you need to make some custom pipes, and buy some aftermarket "swans" and tube extensions in order to hook up the e-brake cables but they're readily available and not outrageously priced. The Porsche rear brakes will widen the track significantly, however - possibly enough that you wouldn't need any spacers - but they have the advantage of already being 5x130 so no machinework or special drums/discs are required.

I think my son has shoehorned 8" rims under the stock fenders of a Beetle (some grinding of the snubber pad and springplate bolt needed)...`Ghias are a bit tighter so 7½" may require slight massaging of the fenderwell lips too, but I don't think you'd have to do anything too radical - the tire profile will be a factor of course, but 205/50s aren't super-wide.

[Bonemaro]

Great ideas Marc. But yes, the wheel/adapter choices will be one of my last projects after the Ghia is nearly ready to roll for sure. I'd still prefer to go with something narrower than a 7.5

[helowrench]

Judging what you saw with the 5.5"ers, do you think I have a remote chance with 7.5"?

I only had about 3/4" clearance outboard (but hard to judge as that aft top side changes relation as the suspension compresses), and 1/2" on the inboard side everywhere.

Bone, it is more about the tire than the wheel itself. stretch some 165's onto a 7.5" rim a' la watercooler guys like "stance", and they will fit all day. (assuming offset is moderately close)

now, that being said, I could probably pick up another 1.0 in clearance by changing one of the trailing arm bolts to a lower profile head, and trimming the bump stop a bit, as those were the two closest points on the inboard side, and maybe a bit more stretching of the fender on the outboard side.

(NOTE: I had already rolled only the lip of the fender "baseball bat style" to allow clearance on the 8 spokes, which really have a poor offset for the Ghia, and really cannot be milled much more than a few MM before you run into caliper/drum interference with the actual spokes themselves)

Taking a look at it from a professional metalworker's standpoint, the proper way to gain about an inch more clearance on the outboard side is to break the welds of the inner fender (over the top of the tire), and add in a pie shaped section. You would essentially be making the rear side of the wheel opening follow the same contour as the front side.

I think until you mess with that fender contour, you are really limited by the tire itself, more than the wheel. 7.5's with a 215 yep (with the correct offset, no problem) but once you go beyond 225-235, you are going to rub the fender as the shoulder of the tire gets into the inner fender at about 2:00 maybe 2:30 (as viewed from driver's side, looking in)
I have actually seen someone, who did their homework and calculations well, slip a 7.0" rim, and the (correct-for-that-width) 225 tire in a IRS Ghia.


As to brakes, I have the two pin square pad calipers, along with late beetle front wheel cylinders installed on the rear.
\
The balance is wonderful, much better than when I had the smaller, original rear wheel cylinders.


It really boils down to what HP and Brakes you are going to have, as any amount of tire width beyond what is necessary for those (*), will be purely for looks, and will actually cost you money in MPG and tire cost. I am running a ~stock engine, and ~stock brakes, so 205 with good compound puts me squarely in the middle of where I need to be

* NOTE: this does depend on your usage some. DD city: add probably 10mm more width if you have to stomp on your brakes a lot, or corner hard all the time. DD highway: my 185's were the best mix for a traction while not suffocating mpg when I did a bunch of long trips. If you live in a wet climate, or deal with poor drainage and standing water on the roads, consider 185's due to the propensity for hydroplaning with the light-car/wide-tire combination.

**PS: Tire pressure will be critical, no matter what tire you choose.

[Bonemaro]

So, are you saying there is little hope for the 17x9.5 275/40 vette wheel fitting?

[Fiatdude]

Now is the time to do the torsion narrowing LOL they would fit easily then -- I've switched one bolt on my arms to a allen head machine screw which sets flush -- and as a buddy told me, if you can slide a piece of paper through there you've got clearance -- and whats a little rub occassionally between friends

Did someone say 16x6 with 225 55r16's????

http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss30 ... rz0ye3.jpg
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss30 ... bqzlbc.jpg

[Bonemaro]

Hmm... Torsion narrowing you say.

[Fiatdude]

Yep --- Mike Lawless with his 'White Knuckle Ride' did a 3" torsion narrow and with a little mini tub work has a 10" slick under his Ghia --

http://lawlessdesigns.com/wkr.htm

Look under the tech section and then under the swing to IRS conversion for what he did --- His car is beautiful and can now run into the 9's