411/412 pictures

Discuss with fans and owners of the most luxurious aircooled sedan/wagon that VW ever made, the VW 411/412. Official forum of Tom's Type 4 Corner.
412s2
Posts: 126
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:09 am

Post by 412s2 »

Hi Albert, I'm looking forward to seeing your EA128 pictures, it is an interesting car! I was disappointed it wasn't on display during my visit to the VW Automuseum in Wolfsburg last year. Have you read Judith Rastall and Fokko Haanstra's history on the Type 4? http://rastall.com/412/412vw-ea240.html It is very comprehensive and tracks the history of the Type 4 all the way back to a Porsche project started in 1949!!!

I've found some more pictures of Type 4 related projects on a Japanese VW blog:
http://www.hobidas.com/blog/vw/vw04/arc ... lash_back/
there are some very pretty VW pictures on this site

Some of the following pictures were posted on a link Lars gave us earlier, but it looks like that link is dead now.

Please click on the hyperlinks to see most of the good pictures! ;)
This is one of the EA53 prototypes http://www.hobidas.com/blog/vw/vw04/_W5G7006.html
This was developed from the Porsche 728 project and appears to share the same body style as the fastback 728. (pictured below)
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An EA53 has a monocoque shell but swing axles at the rear. Click here to see I wonder if the engine fitted to this car eventually developed into the Type 4 engine??
The last of the EA53 prototypes received a Ghia designed body.
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According to Judith and Fokko, around October 1962 the EA53 project was cancelled and replaced with the EA142 project. This project was defined as a possible successor to the VW Type 3 and it is this project that led directly to the VW411. The first of these EA142 projects used a similar body as the Ghia styled EA53 cars but used double jointed rear axles with torsion bars, eventually seen in the Porsche 911 and later ACVWs.
http://www.hobidas.com/blog/vw/vw04/_W5G7013.html
Rear view, I wonder if it has a rear boot like the Type 3?http://www.hobidas.com/blog/vw/vw04/_W5G7014.html
Interior shot, notice the flat floor and the pendulum style pedals! http://www.hobidas.com/blog/vw/vw04/_W5G7015.html
The following picture I believe first appeared in the German magazine 'Der Speigel' in 1967. VW put about 40 or so concept cars and prototypes out on display to show that they weren't resting on the laurels of the Beetle. At the bottom left hand corner of the page you can see 2 Ghia bodied prototypes, either late EA53s or early EA142s!
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The next picture is from the same collection, the car in the middle has number plates, maybe another Type 4 prototype? Personally I like the one on the right!
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Around 1965 the big flat-6 engined Chevy Corvair sized EA128 project was cancelled, along with its Variant sister car EA141. The Japanese site has some great pictures of this Porsche 911 related car.
http://www.hobidas.com/blog/vw/vw04/_W5G7021.html
http://www.hobidas.com/blog/vw/vw04/_W5G7025.html
Interior pic (revs to 6500!!) http://www.hobidas.com/blog/vw/vw04/_W5G7024.html
VW spec Porsche 911 engine? I wish I had seen this car at the Automuseum!! http://www.hobidas.com/blog/vw/vw04/_W5G7216.html

Now this it is pure conjecture on my part, but I imagine when VW cancelled the EA128/EA141 project they decided to turn the EA142 into a bigger car, possibly making the design capable of taking a flat-6 engine!! It's in 1966 that we start to see the Pininfarina influenced EA142 and EA158 models.
Here's another pic of the museums EA158, despite the Beetlesque looking exhaust, it does have an early Type 4 engine, albeit 1493cc! http://www.hobidas.com/blog/vw/vw04/_W5G7019.html
A really great picture of the interior, http://www.hobidas.com/blog/vw/vw04/_W5G7020.html
All the evidence seems to suggest that the EA158 project was intended to replace the Type 3 and fit into the range bellow the EA142 (VW411).

Here is another pic of the Type 4 notchback EA142, you can see the dashboard is almost identical in design to the EA158 model, but white instead of wood effect. http://www.hobidas.com/blog/vw/vw04/_W5G7026.html

EA53 was initially meant to be a Beetle replacement, a project running concurrently with it was EA97 this project utilised the traditional body on a separate backbone chassis. The EA97 nearly made it into German production, I have seen pictures of a EA97 Variant, Fastback and a cabriolet! I believe the first run was made, but then the project was axed and the tooling shipped off to Brazil where it became the basis for their Type 3 cars (I think all the Brazilian Type 3s had Type 1 style front axles, but I could be wrong)
Here are some pictures of EA97, technically it is old tech compared to the EA53 and EA142.
http://www.hobidas.com/blog/vw/vw04/_W5G7007.html
http://www.hobidas.com/blog/vw/vw04/_W5G7009.html
http://www.hobidas.com/blog/vw/vw04/_W5G7010.html

Once the EA142 project had grown to VW411 sized proportions VW started some new projects in collaboration with Porsche to replace the Beetle. I think the first one was EA235, I am not sure, but I think this project has the Porsche code Type 1866 and details about it are given in Etzold's book 'Chronicles of the People's Car'

Here are 2 pictures of an EA235
http://www.hobidas.com/blog/vw/vw04/_W5G7033.html
http://www.hobidas.com/blog/vw/vw04/_W5G7035.html
This particular example has a front mounted inline watercooled 4 and is rear wheel drive. However I do think it has its gearbox mounted in the back which makes it a little more interesting :) Porsche looked at other drive configurations during this project including:
Front-engine/transversly mounted/front drive
Front engine/mounted ahead of the front axle
Rear engine/mounted transversely over the rear axle
Rear engine mounted longitudinally forward of the rear axle/beneath the rear seat.

Porsche took this final design concept forward when they replaced the Type 1866 project with the interesting Type 1966 project, which received the VW code EA266.
http://www.hobidas.com/blog/vw/vw04/_W5G7040.html
This mid-engined car was to reach the market as the VW191 and was to form the basis for a whole new generation of VW cars, vans buses and Porsche sports cars. Again it is rumoured that the first run of pre-production models were produced, but the project was scrapped just as full mass production was to begin!! Etzold states that the total cost of this project cost VW 400 million DM. Ouch!!

Hope I haven't just bored you all to death!

:)
albert
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Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:08 pm

411-412 picture

Post by albert »

hy,,412x2 ,,wow ,,you have many interesant ,,adress,,, i never see many of this prototipes,, for me the ae128 was the most nice prototipe for the 411 ,,and you have one who look samething ,,on your url ,,hobidas 7021 ,, 412x2 you have find a very nice spot,,albert
albert
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Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:08 pm

411-412 pictures

Post by albert »

hy,, the fans,, if you want to see a very nice new car 2008 crash test ,,to 64 klm,hrs,,,appx 38 milles hrs,, look on google picture,,,,BRILLANCE BS6,,, from german car crash test,, he got a cote of 1 on 5,, it was refuse for europe importation,,look the différence with the 411,,albert
412s2
Posts: 126
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:09 am

Post by 412s2 »

Hey Albert :)

I'll let you have the EA128 if I can have the Variant EA141 :P

That Brilliance BS6 folded like a wet paper bag :shock:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvhuFvkX688
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Lars S
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Post by Lars S »

Just some photos from the Swedish official VW-magazine "VW Forum" No3, Autumn 1968.
More ore less the whole issue covered the new 411, the photos were taken summer -68:

Image

...no model emblem rear...

Image


...the no7 lamp is told to be thg the brake system warning light. The extra knob area (no15) seems to be in place.



Lars S
-914/4 -72 daily driver
-Husqvarna 120cc rat bike -48
-Husqvarna 120cc -52
-BMW 600 Road Scrambler -69
-Suzuki T500 Cobra -69
-VW411LE 2-door sedan -70
-Porsche 914/4 -72
-VW412LE 4-door sedan -73
-Suzuki K50 -77
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Lars S
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Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:25 pm

Post by Lars S »

More old photos, this is from a 1968 30-page broschure

Image

Notice the extra knob area to the right of the clock is not there.
The chrome molding on the door hanldles does not feel familiar(?)
Whats the lever on the driver seat back rest for?


Lars S
-914/4 -72 daily driver
-Husqvarna 120cc rat bike -48
-Husqvarna 120cc -52
-BMW 600 Road Scrambler -69
-Suzuki T500 Cobra -69
-VW411LE 2-door sedan -70
-Porsche 914/4 -72
-VW412LE 4-door sedan -73
-Suzuki K50 -77
Lahti411
Posts: 127
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:23 pm

Post by Lahti411 »

Yes, in the first model year there were no space for the extra knobs in the dashboard. These early cars also had two-tone door cards with chrome molding separating the different colours. Lower part of the door card was always black. Also the "stiching" in the door lining was different. The lever in the backrest is for adjustable lumbar support which was also available on the first model year only.
412s2
Posts: 126
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:09 am

Post by 412s2 »

Great pictures Lars, thanks for sharing.

Those early models certainly seemed to have more elaborate trim than the later models. I imagine they de-contented the Type 4 in this area to increase their profit margin!
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Lars S
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Post by Lars S »

Thanks, the rest of the wonderful folder can be wiewed at the Samba:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit ... wedish.php

Enjoy yourself!


Lars S
-914/4 -72 daily driver
-Husqvarna 120cc rat bike -48
-Husqvarna 120cc -52
-BMW 600 Road Scrambler -69
-Suzuki T500 Cobra -69
-VW411LE 2-door sedan -70
-Porsche 914/4 -72
-VW412LE 4-door sedan -73
-Suzuki K50 -77
Lahti411
Posts: 127
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:23 pm

Post by Lahti411 »

Cool production pics can be found here:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.ph ... w-autowerk

Nice to see how the car's assembled; for example how the whole rear axle and engine with carriers and springs were lifted into the car as a package. Logical, but i would have never thought about that...
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Lars S
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Post by Lars S »

Thanks Lahti!
Lots and lots of Type4's to look at amongs others...


/Lars S
-914/4 -72 daily driver
-Husqvarna 120cc rat bike -48
-Husqvarna 120cc -52
-BMW 600 Road Scrambler -69
-Suzuki T500 Cobra -69
-VW411LE 2-door sedan -70
-Porsche 914/4 -72
-VW412LE 4-door sedan -73
-Suzuki K50 -77
412s2
Posts: 126
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:09 am

Post by 412s2 »

Clinging on like a limpet at speed!! :wink:

Image

Thank you Lahti411!! What a collection of pictures!!
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raygreenwood
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Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am

Post by raygreenwood »

So...I'm trying to figure out.....were all Swedish VW's sold with hot looking chicks as accessories?...Thats what the brochure seems to depict!
That...and a set of "porkchop" sideburns! :lol: Ray
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Lars S
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Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:25 pm

Post by Lars S »

You are right Ray, but unfoprtuneately the accessories included were not as durable as the car itself was, at least not to me... :(
/Lars S
-914/4 -72 daily driver
-Husqvarna 120cc rat bike -48
-Husqvarna 120cc -52
-BMW 600 Road Scrambler -69
-Suzuki T500 Cobra -69
-VW411LE 2-door sedan -70
-Porsche 914/4 -72
-VW412LE 4-door sedan -73
-Suzuki K50 -77
Lahti411
Posts: 127
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:23 pm

Post by Lahti411 »

What about this hot Finnish ad:
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No hot girls seen here but some Finnish hunks... Best way to describe the difference between the Finns and the Swedes...
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