Is it possible to restart a cntrelink rebuild thread?

Discuss with fans and owners of the most luxurious aircooled sedan/wagon that VW ever made, the VW 411/412. Official forum of Tom's Type 4 Corner.
herr_sparky
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Post by herr_sparky »

Would taking the measurements on the gaps between the centrelink and the pitman/idler arms it is currently attached too be suffecient to make the bushes to transfer it to the steering parts on my car, or are they likely to be radically different?
as i understand it, this is exactly what needs to be done in order to precisely duplicate those measurements, assuming you are reusing the same pitman/idler arms and tapered pins. however, the thickness of the bushing/packing just below it (the one with the curved/beveled edge) will also affect the gap measurement once assembled...

that being said, the whole point is to have material filling this gap that will give lateral support without interfering with the press-fit of the pitman/idler arms. my first attempt used a stack of washers that was too tall, and it prevented the idler arm from pressing on fully; the nut was tight, but thats because the arm had bottomed out on the washers, not the taper, so once the nut was removed the arm basically just fell off...so for me, it made more sense to calculate the length after the insides were fully assembled. in fact, i did both just to be sure, and had a difference of about 0.010".

the important thing about measuring the gap later is to be sure about the pin being secure & centered...or it will foul up your measurement. beveling the outer edge of that particular bushing will also affect how much pin sticks out and the gap...
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raygreenwood
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Post by raygreenwood »

Yes...spot on. Ray
herr_sparky
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Post by herr_sparky »

Lahti411 wrote:
I used the original plastic centering rings as they were in great shape and were obviously perfect fit.
so did i... they seemed such a minor part, i didnt see anything wrong with reusing them either...

Image

by the way, i cant believe how unharmed the outer ring of your cap is... thats amazing! i slaughtered mine, but i think it will still hold the snap ring OK...its just ugly.
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raygreenwood
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Post by raygreenwood »

You can also peen that outside area down to make it fit tighter on the snap ring.
My original palstic rings/packings..were literally powder.

I actually had pretty tight snap rings because I bought extra thick ones and sanded them lightly. Ray
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bradey bunch
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Re: Is it possible to restart a cntrelink rebuild thread?

Post by bradey bunch »

Aha! I was having trouble finding this thread. I got my bronze idler arm bushing in the mail from CIP today. Anyways, I read one of Rays many posts, and he mentioned using steel for the centerlink bushings. Has anyone done this? It would be alot easier for me to find suitable steel to make the bushings.

Braden
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raygreenwood
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Re: Is it possible to restart a cntrelink rebuild thread?

Post by raygreenwood »

You can use steel, or bronze. I'm thinking brass would have too many corrosion problems with salt and water. The rea key is that once you have the centerlink rebuilt you can then install the center link in the car into the pitman arm and idler arm. Torque the nut...and then measure the gap between the center link face on each joint....and the surface on both idler arm and pitman arm. Then make a bushing that has perhaps .001"-.002" clearance....and make a spacer bushing. Steel is ok....but bronze would be better. The steel would wear on both the arm and the center link...eventually opening the gap. Ray
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kps70
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Re: Is it possible to restart a centrelink rebuild thread?

Post by kps70 »

Ok I have a question!
I have just got the first pin out of my 411's centre link. It was a b*****d of a job and took me 3 evenings. The nylon was in good shape so I felt really guilty hacking it all apart.
Now it's out and I think about the bronze bushes - help!
The opening where the pin came out on my centre link is around 22.1mm. The diameter of the inside is wider, over 22.5mm. Did you guys just gently open up the edge under which the cap was seated by filing it open to allow the bronze bushes access? Am I just being too picky? I guess it will still leave plenty of lip under which to secure the new cap and snap ring?
Thanks for your comments/help
Kieron
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kps70
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Re: Is it possible to restart a cntrelink rebuild thread?

Post by kps70 »

The second pin only took 1 evening to remove - I must be getting better!
Further to my questions above, I noticed that in one picture (lahti's) the bronze bushing is flush with the flange on the pin. But, on an another, earlier picture, the bronze clearly extends beyond the width of the flange. This seems strange? Also when you guys fit the pin in with the bushes, are we talking a 'hammered in' fit, push fit or does it all just drop in nicely? This sort of work is new to me and I want to get it right!
Thanks
Kieron
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raygreenwood
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Re: Is it possible to restart a cntrelink rebuild thread?

Post by raygreenwood »

My pins fit in the bushings snugly...about like a piston pin bushing. No loose fit...but no need for a press fit either.
personally I did not use a continuos stepped bushing that prodtrudes through the 21.5mm hole to the outside. Its fine either way...but the use of a bushing like that either assumes that the holes on both ends are identical (not always the case)....and it assumes you have access to a machine shop. And...if you have them machined to fit the smaller of the two hoels, it means opening up the other hole by hand.

If you are patient and handy...there is no reason that any machine work is required for this at all. I used a stack of bronze thrust washers.
By using those....it is very simple to perfectly and quickly adjust ethe exact out diameter of the thrust washers to match a tight fit inside of the arm housing.

The simplest way is to first clearance the ID of the washers one by one with a hand reamer and a dremel tool. Once you have the right amount of washers stacked up for the right spacing of the pin in the housing...and the center bores clearanced to fit the pin, use a small amount of super glue to hold them onto teh pin (temporarily)...or use a hose clamp. Them chuck the thread end into a cordless drill (very lightly). While the pin spins...run a file over the OD of the washer stack...about 6-10 seconds at a time. Then pull out and test fit into the housing.
It goes pretty quick. You can clearance the thickness of thrust washers on a file or sandpaper on glass to get exact precise packing thickness.

My stepped flanged thrust washer did not protrude out of teh hosuing to also serve as teh spacer between pitman arm and housing. It was far simpler to have an external bushing to do that for me. It was quickly correcteable with a file. I then ground grease grooves in the washers with a dremel. I will PM you some pictures of the whole thing. Ray
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raygreenwood
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Re: Is it possible to restart a cntrelink rebuild thread?

Post by raygreenwood »

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kps70
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Re: Is it possible to restart a cntrelink rebuild thread?

Post by kps70 »

Thanks for that Ray - now I need to source some bronze washers. pm'ed pictures would be really helpful, thanks
K
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raygreenwood
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Re: Is it possible to restart a cntrelink rebuild thread?

Post by raygreenwood »

I added a picture of the stainless back cap to the album
http://s1186.photobucket.com/albums/z36 ... %20411412/
This link takes you directly there instead of having to select from the menu.

Where are you locate? Most basic hardware stores in the US have selections of bronze thrust washers and collared bushings. In all including the stainless strip for the back cap...I spent about $40. Ray
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kps70
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Re: Is it possible to restart a cntrelink rebuild thread?

Post by kps70 »

Hi Ray - I'm in the UK and our hardware stores are rubbish! I have resorted to the internet for supplies.
I had to file the lip down today to make enough room for the washers to fit through. I hope this leaves enough for the circlip to sit under and hold it securely? Did you open up the groove a little with a dremel tool to give enough space for the lid flange and clip?
Thanks
Kieron
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raygreenwood
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Re: Is it possible to restart a cntrelink rebuild thread?

Post by raygreenwood »

Yes, very little though. The reason I cut the four slots at 12,3,6 9 o'clock...is so that I could very lightly pry those areas up both for removing what was left of the back cap and to be able to get cap and circlip underneath and into the groove.
Most any decent bearing supplu house will also jave bronze thrust washers and bronze flanged washers for relatively cheap.

here is a location that sells thrust washers in Surrey. http://www.automotioncomponents.co.uk/p ... ashers.htm
Ray
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wshawn
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Re: Is it possible to restart a cntrelink rebuild thread?

Post by wshawn »

Well, its taken me ages to get around to starting to rebuild my spare centrelink but progress has started.

I've got as far as removing both pins, which I'm quite pleased with as I didn't completely muller everything! And once I started it only took a few hours and half a dozen dremmel cutting disc.

Image

I now need to source the bronze to refit the pins but I have a local place in mind that may be able to help but I need to wait till the kids are back to school next week before I can get there.

I have the same question as Kieron though, is it OK to file the lip that held the old cap on so that the new bits can be inserted as I couldn't get them to fold back to make removing the old material easy and am concerned about breaking them off if I try and peel them back?

Other than that I am reasonably sure what needs to be done to continue to replace the old bushing material, thanks to the input from a lot of others on this subject. Cheers guys :D

However I have a question regarding the rubber bush that the steering damper bolts through, are these available new as this one is showing signs of age? On one side in particular there is what appears to be small rotational cracks. It seems a shame to renew each end and leave this as it is an obvious weak point.

I'll update as soon as I can find the bits I need.
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