912E Type IV Rebuild
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Re: 912E Type IV Rebuild
The 104 lc reduces the compression requirements a bit, but to get the most out of that cam/heads 9.5:1 is about right.
Maybe a bit more with premium fuel.
Dual springs are absolutely required.
Maybe a bit more with premium fuel.
Dual springs are absolutely required.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
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- Clatter
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Re: 912E Type IV Rebuild
Be sure to share details with us..
Would like to see the chambers on your heads.
If your chambers are large, your deck height might be too small at 9.5:1?
Would like to see the chambers on your heads.
If your chambers are large, your deck height might be too small at 9.5:1?
Speedier than a Fasting Bullet!
Beginners' how-to Type 4 build thread ---> http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145853
Beginners' how-to Type 4 build thread ---> http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145853
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Re: 912E Type IV Rebuild
Clatter / All -
the heads are the RS+ by Hoffman and sold on the Type4 Store.
https://type4store.com/cylinder-heads/r ... heads.html
they have had the valves upgraded to 44mm x 38mm Manley
Pile - these heads do not have dual springs. When I was getting them worked on by Len Hoffman, this is what he had to say about that:
" The std springs we use for the RS+ are Crower single springs. With most cams they're good for up to 6300RPM's and around .500" valve lift. If you plan to lift more or turn more than that we'll need to upgrade to Crower dual springs. I strongly recommend that you stay with the singles and limit the revs of this big engine if it's a street car that might only occasionally twist over 6300. Running around town with more spring pressure than you need is hard on the cam."
Based upon this recommendation, I went with the single springs. I plan on setting the redline at 6200.
Thanks everyone for your knowledge - only want to do this one time!
Brook
the heads are the RS+ by Hoffman and sold on the Type4 Store.
https://type4store.com/cylinder-heads/r ... heads.html
they have had the valves upgraded to 44mm x 38mm Manley
Pile - these heads do not have dual springs. When I was getting them worked on by Len Hoffman, this is what he had to say about that:
" The std springs we use for the RS+ are Crower single springs. With most cams they're good for up to 6300RPM's and around .500" valve lift. If you plan to lift more or turn more than that we'll need to upgrade to Crower dual springs. I strongly recommend that you stay with the singles and limit the revs of this big engine if it's a street car that might only occasionally twist over 6300. Running around town with more spring pressure than you need is hard on the cam."
Based upon this recommendation, I went with the single springs. I plan on setting the redline at 6200.
Thanks everyone for your knowledge - only want to do this one time!
Brook
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Brook Sherrard
1976 Porsche 912E
1976 Porsche 912E
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Re: 912E Type IV Rebuild
Asked Len Hoffman about the compression recommendation and here was his response.
"As for the CR, I know a lot of folks target 9.0-9.5 using the 9500 cam. Keep in mind the heads will be less tolerant of heat spikes without the coatings so you'll have to tune it carefully and run good gas."
they never used the coatings on the heads back when Jake was working up the 2270 combos... don't think they are such a big deal just another added cost and these heads were not cheap! Thought anyone?
Brook
"As for the CR, I know a lot of folks target 9.0-9.5 using the 9500 cam. Keep in mind the heads will be less tolerant of heat spikes without the coatings so you'll have to tune it carefully and run good gas."
they never used the coatings on the heads back when Jake was working up the 2270 combos... don't think they are such a big deal just another added cost and these heads were not cheap! Thought anyone?
Brook
Brook Sherrard
1976 Porsche 912E
1976 Porsche 912E
- Clatter
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Re: 912E Type IV Rebuild
Thanks for sharing all of the details.
Nice to hear what Len is up to these days now that him and Jake aren't on the forums anymore.
I didn't see you mention what exhaust you planned to run..
Exhaust is crucial. A big exhaust valve wants a big exhaust.
If you really want to duplicate the old designs, you'll have to pony up!
http://www.tangerineracing.com/otherporsche.htm
Also, what is the ID of the step cut into your heads?
Did Len do a custom 96mm ID step?
How thick is the step?
That step is one of the many sweet things about a set of HAM heads..
Also love how you are right at the edge of singles.
Right where you want to be...
Nice to hear what Len is up to these days now that him and Jake aren't on the forums anymore.
I didn't see you mention what exhaust you planned to run..
Exhaust is crucial. A big exhaust valve wants a big exhaust.
If you really want to duplicate the old designs, you'll have to pony up!

http://www.tangerineracing.com/otherporsche.htm
Also, what is the ID of the step cut into your heads?
Did Len do a custom 96mm ID step?
How thick is the step?
That step is one of the many sweet things about a set of HAM heads..
Also love how you are right at the edge of singles.
Right where you want to be...
Speedier than a Fasting Bullet!
Beginners' how-to Type 4 build thread ---> http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145853
Beginners' how-to Type 4 build thread ---> http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145853
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Re: 912E Type IV Rebuild
Clatter -
I have been looking at the Tangerine setup for the 912E but also talking with Turbo Thomas - he has some pretty sweet setups (see picture below). The step in the heads is 1mm and it does fit the standard cylinders which I had bored out.
One question on sealants - I have Curil K2 for the case halves but can I use that for everything (cylinders, oil pump, push rod tubes) or do you think I need to use the bazillion different sealants identified in some of these posts / forums?
Brook.
I have been looking at the Tangerine setup for the 912E but also talking with Turbo Thomas - he has some pretty sweet setups (see picture below). The step in the heads is 1mm and it does fit the standard cylinders which I had bored out.
One question on sealants - I have Curil K2 for the case halves but can I use that for everything (cylinders, oil pump, push rod tubes) or do you think I need to use the bazillion different sealants identified in some of these posts / forums?
Brook.
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Brook Sherrard
1976 Porsche 912E
1976 Porsche 912E
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Re: 912E Type IV Rebuild
I would use the Curil for the case ,oil pump etc . then ultra grey RTV silicon at the base of the cylinders and just oil for the pushrod tube o rings . The inner o ring is designed to move on the tube to allow for heat expansion .It is good to smooth out the cylinder head where the lead in for the tubes are . there are normally shape edges from machining that make it easy to nick the o rings when fitting the tubes .
No matter where you go , there you are !
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Oil Pump Help
I have a modified full flow Shadek oil pump from the type4 Store with a billet full flow cover plate. They did not provide any instructions with the parts and the gasket kit I got only came with the paper gasket for the Pump/case. I have a few questions hopefully someone can help with:
is there a specific orientation for the full flow cover plate? it has an opening on the interior side - does this need to align with anything in the pump or can it be oriented any way? I am thinking it needs to be have the opening on the plate align with the larger opening on between the oil pump gears (top in the picture below). Also - should there have been another paper gasket for the pump/cover plate? if not do I just use curil K2 for that seal?
lastly - the pump from the type4 Store came with 4 bolts but they are too long - should I replace them with studs that are long enough?
thanks everyone - trying to finish up my short block.
Brook.
is there a specific orientation for the full flow cover plate? it has an opening on the interior side - does this need to align with anything in the pump or can it be oriented any way? I am thinking it needs to be have the opening on the plate align with the larger opening on between the oil pump gears (top in the picture below). Also - should there have been another paper gasket for the pump/cover plate? if not do I just use curil K2 for that seal?
lastly - the pump from the type4 Store came with 4 bolts but they are too long - should I replace them with studs that are long enough?
thanks everyone - trying to finish up my short block.
Brook.
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Brook Sherrard
1976 Porsche 912E
1976 Porsche 912E
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Re: 912E Type IV Rebuild
I’m not quite following you, let me take some wild ass guesses;
I would glue/seal the pump body to the case (518, curil) however the provided paper gasket is likely OEM, they work ok
The gasket that takes is a type-1 pump to cover https://vwparts.aircooled.net/Oil-Pump- ... 5-131b.htm Yeah the product description is wrong, that is for late type-1 and wasser, not used in type-4 applications because of the OEM pump
If that cover is used for a remote old filter, then 9 o-clock. If keeping the stock type-4 filter clock it anyway you want but cap it off.
The pump 5-o-clock inlet (this goes to the oil pickup passage and bell)
At 10 o-clock it will either go into galley or external system via fancy cover
Bolts for what? I like using the engine case’s m8 studs to retain pumps
I would glue/seal the pump body to the case (518, curil) however the provided paper gasket is likely OEM, they work ok
The gasket that takes is a type-1 pump to cover https://vwparts.aircooled.net/Oil-Pump- ... 5-131b.htm Yeah the product description is wrong, that is for late type-1 and wasser, not used in type-4 applications because of the OEM pump
If that cover is used for a remote old filter, then 9 o-clock. If keeping the stock type-4 filter clock it anyway you want but cap it off.
The pump 5-o-clock inlet (this goes to the oil pickup passage and bell)
At 10 o-clock it will either go into galley or external system via fancy cover
Bolts for what? I like using the engine case’s m8 studs to retain pumps
Yeah some may call it overkill, but you can't have too much overkill.
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Re: 912E Type IV Rebuild
Making slow progress. I have mounted my oil pump - it will be changed to a full flow system with a remote oil filter. I wanted to confirm the correct port for the oil return to the block from the remote filter. I believe it is the top port marked with an "A". is that correct? Any recommendations on a remote filter bracket?
I also checked my flywheel endplay and it is at .013" Quite a bit larger than the .003-.005 specification. I will be getting three (3) new shims to bring it into .004" specification.
thanks for all the input on my build.
Brook
I also checked my flywheel endplay and it is at .013" Quite a bit larger than the .003-.005 specification. I will be getting three (3) new shims to bring it into .004" specification.
thanks for all the input on my build.
Brook
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Brook Sherrard
1976 Porsche 912E
1976 Porsche 912E
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Re: 912E Type IV Rebuild
here is a picture of the pump installed with cover.
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Brook Sherrard
1976 Porsche 912E
1976 Porsche 912E
- Piledriver
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Re: 912E Type IV Rebuild
Pull the distributor and drive+washer RFN if you do not have the end play set/flywheel on permanantly.
Simply rotating the crank with the flywheel off can destroy the brass drive gear on the crank.
Distributor drive==last part in.
The herd of sealants Jake specified are simply what he found to work best, leaky engines cost him $$$.
Everyone has their own favorites, but the red anerobic on the case halves is a huge upgrade.
It's way too pricey at auto parts stores, buy online.
Make sure to get some on the nuts/washers and threads of the studs on the case.
I get the pump gaskets tacky with it, wipe off the excess before install.
I will not set until installed.
...Technique works with rtv too, but rtv is much harder to clean off, best avoided.
I have used super copper rtv on cylinder bases but feel a non-setting sealant like Kopper-kote is better.
kopper-kote as head gasket works, and cleans up easily.
i double oringed a herd of pumps I'm still trying to work through, which is preferred, but that works.
Simply rotating the crank with the flywheel off can destroy the brass drive gear on the crank.
Distributor drive==last part in.
The herd of sealants Jake specified are simply what he found to work best, leaky engines cost him $$$.
Everyone has their own favorites, but the red anerobic on the case halves is a huge upgrade.
It's way too pricey at auto parts stores, buy online.
Make sure to get some on the nuts/washers and threads of the studs on the case.
I get the pump gaskets tacky with it, wipe off the excess before install.
I will not set until installed.
...Technique works with rtv too, but rtv is much harder to clean off, best avoided.
I have used super copper rtv on cylinder bases but feel a non-setting sealant like Kopper-kote is better.
kopper-kote as head gasket works, and cleans up easily.
i double oringed a herd of pumps I'm still trying to work through, which is preferred, but that works.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
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Re: 912E Type IV Rebuild
Thanks for the input Pile. Distributor and drive removed with no damage!
Brook
Brook
Brook Sherrard
1976 Porsche 912E
1976 Porsche 912E