Tell me what you think. (56k warning: landmines ahead)

[aircooledtechguy]

Do you still want honest opinions?

Go ahead.

I, along with many others on these forums have the ability to see, "the diamonds in the rough". . . You still got about a billion years to go before that lump of coal is anyother color than black!! Serously, that is a parts bus at best. I make a living bringing folks cars back to life. I have the ability to buy my parts at wholesale (way cheaper in many instances than the advertised prices of retailers). I've been GIVEN better busses and passed on bringing them back to life, because the cost would be astronomical and I can do ALL the work myself. You cna find driving running busses for WAY less than you will spend getting that one to be even a remotely dependable driver.

Some things to consider when buying a parked vehicle

1. Not many folks just park a perfectly running non-crashed vehicle. Kinda goes against our nature.

2. If it was parked and the body was not in a serious crash, it probably had a major mechanical failure.

3. The engine is gone, chances are good that it was sold-off because it was good when it was parked. Ever priced what it would cost to have a rebuild built w/o a core??

3. The trans is still in place. This is another failure point which causes vehicles to be parked. If it's still there, chances are good that it's bad.

So what you basically have is a rusted shell of a bus, with a possibly bad tranny and no engine, no real interior and a suspect electrical system. All this = A PARTS BUS at best.

I would look for a better bus that runs and drives that maybe needs less major work and high $$$ parts just to get it roadworthy. When you are talking about vehicles under $3000 generally speaking an additional $1000 in vehicle cost (for one in better condition) will generally save you $1500-$2500 in repair costs later. I've been proven right on this simple formula many times over the years. I would hate to see a young, enthusiastic guy like yourself, soured on the car hobby by taking on too big of a project for his first one. We all get fixer-uppers starting out, but this is WAY more than that!!!

[MNAirHead]

WOW..

What an eloquent and exacting answer.

I'm mirroring this in the "How to Buy a VW Thread"

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... 2&start=30

[Zane Hall]

Keep in mind that I want to do this.

[MNAirHead]

We all believe you can with enough time, money and persistance.

Most of us started with something like this - most (who stick with aircooleds) move do a different VW after we caught the Aircooled spirit.

[Zane Hall]

We all believe you can with enough time, money and persistance.

Most of us started with something like this - most (who stick with aircooleds) move do a different VW after we caught the Aircooled spirit.

This '73 probably won't be my last VW.

By the way, I read that article about the '65 Bug in the picture.

Lesson learned.
Never try to do everything at once.

[MNAirHead]

There is some VW karma you can pick up on.

Most of the old guys here will chuckle.

There's this funky good luck thing that happens. Basically you buy something.. within just a few weeks something better comes along. I can't tell you how many times I've bought a Dub and had the phone ring the next day... or have a rag clip put into something.. next day someone calls with an original rag bug.

We believe in you - we appreciate you've been cool with your replies.... your long-term success is why STF is around.

T.

[aircooledtechguy]

This '73 probably won't be my last VW.

If you get that one it probably will be. By the time you realize that it's going to cost more than you have or can make in a couple years to make roadworthy, you'll be so discusted w/ VWs, broke and so pissed-off that H*ndas will start looking go to you.

Once you start plunkin' down your hard earned $$$ for that motor, you will find out just how much it will cost. From my shop, the last 4-5 STOCK type-4 motor re-builds have cost in the neighborhood of $3500-$4500 depending on the condition of the heads. . . Oh thats right you don't have a core with good heads. . . You don't have tins. . . You don't have a case with all your core parts (crank, rods cam lifters) etc, etc, etc. . .

When do you expect to get all this work done??? Between the full time job it's going to take to earn all the money it's going to take and school(??), a girlfriend maybe (those can cost you a ton of $$$ too ), just when do you plan to perform this miraculous reserection of your parts bus???

We all know that you WANT to do this; no question about that. Your enthusiasm is commendable, noble and just darned infectious. However, you have asked a lot of people with a heck of a lot more experience, knowlege (and probably $$$, but I don't know your finances) what we thought of that bus?? The overwhelming response has been to look for another candidate for your efforts. If I were you, I WOULD HEED THAT ADVICE!!

In case you are still reading and considering your "diamond", here's a few things to consider about that bus that may have escaped you in your moments of joyful pre-purchase state of mind:

1. Plan on replacing ALL brake hydraulic components. Sitting that long they will be toast (expect around $450 minimum, if you need shoes, pads rotors and drums add another $250+)

2. Plan on pulling the tank and POR-15 treatment ($75 or so)

3. That trans if it needs replacing will set you back around $800 with shipping

4. I've already talked about the motor ($4500 for arguments sake)

5. Tires X 4 (around $400 out the door)

6. Recovering front seats (who cares about the passangers right?) (around $300 for a TMI kit and new pads)

7. A new clutch kit since that was attached to the MIA engine ($200)

8. Getting the electrical system squared away (hard to say. Could be easy if you're familiar with them, but if your not. . . You may have to take it to a professional BIG $$$ there)

9. You can add another $400-500 for incidental things that ALWAYS some up like a rear mount bar , engine/trans mounts fuel hose, etc, etc, etc.

10. Carbs for the MIA motor ($450-$850 depending on what you get)

11. Count on new shocks and steering stabilizer (around $140)

12. Tail lights, blinkers and headlights ($150)

13. Rear bumper ($100) Oh never mind, it actually HAS that

TOTAL: $7715.00 (and I know a lot of other stuff will be needed to just get it on the road; there always is). Also this is if YOU do ALL the repairs yourself. You could easily hit the $10K mark if a shop did them. . .

Conversely, you could purchase this bus and have it shipped to your door for half that and have 10X the bus. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/ ... ?id=520823

That doesn't even address the rust, body & paint and everything that comes with doing that type of stuff. . . Anyone who has done a full restoration will tell you that the single biggest expense is the rust repair, body work and paint work. Even at Macco with all the rust repair already done, I woulld expect a quote around $2500-$4000. . .

Again, as I stated before, I DO THIS FOR A LIVING. I DO HIGH-DOLLAR RESTORATIONS ON CARS WORTH $15K LESS (sometimes more) THAN THEY COST TO DO WHEN DONE. THAT'S JUST THE NATURE OF DOING A RESTORATION. AT BEST, USE THIS AS A PARTS BUS FOR ANOTHER DRIVER THAT YOU BUY AND DRIVE DAILY.

(soap box off) But hey, if you want my opinnion, I say go for it dude!! Looks like a sweet, pimpin' bus. . .

Whew, I need a beer. . .

[Zane Hall]

This '73 probably won't be my last VW.

If you get that one it probably will be. By the time you realize that it's going to cost more than you have or can make in a couple years to make roadworthy, you'll be so discusted w/ VWs, broke and so pissed-off that H*ndas will start looking go to you.

Once you start plunkin' down your hard earned $$$ for that motor, you will find out just how much it will cost. From my shop, the last 4-5 STOCK type-4 motor re-builds have cost in the neighborhood of $3500-$4500 depending on the condition of the heads. . . Oh thats right you don't have a core with good heads. . . You don't have tins. . . You don't have a case with all your core parts (crank, rods cam lifters) etc, etc, etc. . .

When do you expect to get all this work done??? Between the full time job it's going to take to earn all the money it's going to take and school(??), a girlfriend maybe (those can cost you a ton of $$$ too ), just when do you plan to perform this miraculous reserection of your parts bus???

We all know that you WANT to do this; no question about that. Your enthusiasm is commendable, noble and just darned infectious. However, you have asked a lot of people with a heck of a lot more experience, knowlege (and probably $$$, but I don't know your finances) what we thought of that bus?? The overwhelming response has been to look for another candidate for your efforts. If I were you, I WOULD HEED THAT ADVICE!!

In case you are still reading and considering your "diamond", here's a few things to consider about that bus that may have escaped you in your moments of joyful pre-purchase state of mind:

1. Plan on replacing ALL brake hydraulic components. Sitting that long they will be toast (expect around $450 minimum, if you need shoes, pads rotors and drums add another $250+)

2. Plan on pulling the tank and POR-15 treatment ($75 or so)

3. That trans if it needs replacing will set you back around $800 with shipping

4. I've already talked about the motor ($4500 for arguments sake)

5. Tires X 4 (around $400 out the door)

6. Recovering front seats (who cares about the passangers right?) (around $300 for a TMI kit and new pads)

7. A new clutch kit since that was attached to the MIA engine ($200)

8. Getting the electrical system squared away (hard to say. Could be easy if you're familiar with them, but if your not. . . You may have to take it to a professional BIG $$$ there)

9. You can add another $400-500 for incidental things that ALWAYS some up like a rear mount bar , engine/trans mounts fuel hose, etc, etc, etc.

10. Carbs for the MIA motor ($450-$850 depending on what you get)

11. Count on new shocks and steering stabilizer (around $140)

12. Tail lights, blinkers and headlights ($150)

13. Rear bumper ($100) Oh never mind, it actually HAS that

TOTAL: $7715.00 (and I know a lot of other stuff will be needed to just get it on the road; there always is). Also this is if YOU do ALL the repairs yourself. You could easily hit the $10K mark if a shop did them. . .

Conversely, you could purchase this bus and have it shipped to your door for half that and have 10X the bus. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/ ... ?id=520823

That doesn't even address the rust, body & paint and everything that comes with doing that type of stuff. . . Anyone who has done a full restoration will tell you that the single biggest expense is the rust repair, body work and paint work. Even at Macco with all the rust repair already done, I woulld expect a quote around $2500-$4000. . .

Again, as I stated before, I DO THIS FOR A LIVING. I DO HIGH-DOLLAR RESTORATIONS ON CARS WORTH $15K LESS (sometimes more) THAN THEY COST TO DO WHEN DONE. THAT'S JUST THE NATURE OF DOING A RESTORATION. AT BEST, USE THIS AS A PARTS BUS FOR ANOTHER DRIVER THAT YOU BUY AND DRIVE DAILY.

(soap box off) But hey, if you want my opinnion, I say go for it dude!! Looks like a sweet, pimpin' bus. . .

Whew, I need a beer. . .

I HAVE AN ENGINE!
It's a Type III with the upright doghouse cooler. It has tin, and all the parts, including a single-barrel carb, and the exhaust system.

It may be frozen up, but the guy I'm buying it from can fix that for me.

Did you read the entire thread?

[InaneCathode]

Man i hope you're good at interiors, or have a buddy who is

I know some people that know some people.

They better be cheap people
Headliner
Front seats
Back seats
Door panels
Carpet
Rear hatch
Dash
Floor, ceiling, doors, walls all need to be stripped

[Zane Hall]

There is some VW karma you can pick up on.

Most of the old guys here will chuckle.

There's this funky good luck thing that happens. Basically you buy something.. within just a few weeks something better comes along. I can't tell you how many times I've bought a Dub and had the phone ring the next day... or have a rag clip put into something.. next day someone calls with an original rag bug.

We believe in you - we appreciate you've been cool with your replies.... your long-term success is why STF is around.

T.

That's the way it is with me and jobs

I'll definitely be on here a lot more with questions and problems once I get this '73 in my back yard.

[MNAirHead]

I HAVE AN ENGINE!
It's a Type III with the upright doghouse cooler. It has tin, and all the parts, including a single-barrel carb, and the exhaust system.

It may be frozen up, but the guy I'm buying it from can fix that for me.

Did you read the entire thread?

[/quote]

Please understand our friend is sincerely trying to help you. Most of us have walked down your current path.

I think the note about the engine was relating that your T3 upright engine is not the correct one for your bus.

The historical life span of your engine is approximately 1/4 of what the "stock" engine is - the actual driving power is about 2/3 of the stock.

You can do it - figure about $900 to rebuild a T1 engine on the low end (without any labor). I've owned both T1 busses and T4 busses.. by far I'd pick an 1800 bus over any T1 power.. you can actually keep up with traffic.

Please be cautious "rebuild" means tons of things to tons of people.. everything from wiping up an oil leak to blueprinting and balancing within 1/10th of a gram.

We're here to help.

[MNAirHead]

Adding a Xpost link to the Newbies - hoping this helps some folks.

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... 931#843931

[blue77bay]

I cant stay silent any longer!
I DROVE home my bus,and i was going to use it for a parts bus,but i started looking and it was knocked about but totally rust free ,so i changed course and rejuvenated it other than the engine which is a 2lt and still has good comps,3 years later i am still not finished and i dont want to start adding up my expenses but i would think around 10k and that is doing everything myself.
Take heed of the voices of experience
Good luck

[InaneCathode]

This '73 probably won't be my last VW.

Stuff

You'd have to be a fool to buy brand new still in the wrapper parts for a first time restoration...
Brand new carbs for that bus, 700 bucks easy. I got my pdsits for 50 bucks. Brand new turnkey type 4 motor? Wut? Who'd actually buy one of those for a first time project bus.

I'd say a solid 3 grand to get his bus up to driveable level.

Zane: Look into doing ALL of the work yourself. What's going to screw your wallet over here is labor costs. VW guys often charge too freakin much, plus you could learn a thing or two about interiors. I almost had someone do my fiero for me until i did it myself, labor price? 0 dollars. Saved about 1200 doing it all myself.

After thinking you're insane zane, i'm starting to root for ya One thing at a time mate, one thing at a time.
My vote? Start with the hard stuff first, rust blasting. Buy or borrow a sand blaster and take ALL of the bus to metal, every last square inch. Por the bad spots and buy or borrow an hvlp gun, prime the entire exterior. It's almost totally stripped as is, might as well get it done now. Blast the interior as well, tear out every piece of everything in the inside and start fresh. If you're going to end up spending the cash to get it driveable you might as well do it right. Having a perfectly clean body will make you feel SO much better about it. It wont look like a POS bus shell, instead it'll look like a project bus.

[Zane Hall]

This '73 probably won't be my last VW.

Stuff

You'd have to be a fool to buy brand new still in the wrapper parts for a first time restoration...
Brand new carbs for that bus, 700 bucks easy. I got my pdsits for 50 bucks. Brand new turnkey type 4 motor? Wut? Who'd actually buy one of those for a first time project bus.

I'd say a solid 3 grand to get his bus up to driveable level.

Zane: Look into doing ALL of the work yourself. What's going to screw your wallet over here is labor costs. VW guys often charge too freakin much, plus you could learn a thing or two about interiors. I almost had someone do my fiero for me until i did it myself, labor price? 0 dollars. Saved about 1200 doing it all myself.

The only stuff I planned on getting brand new were the really vital inexpensive components (brakes, shocks, tires, etc.).

Doing all the work yourself does cut down on the cost .