"4-Way suspension" work alike?

[Soul]

Once the pictures were posted I had the "Ah Hah" moment.

So will you have to space the shock out if you run something like this up front on a Type 3? Seems it would be a little tight?

[Piledriver]

Once the pictures were posted I had the "Ah Hah" moment.

So will you have to space the shock out if you run something like this up front on a Type 3? Seems it would be a little tight?

The fronts don't look to be an issue at all, but I didn't install them there.
The collars aren't all that thick.

I did have to grind out a 40 year old ~1/4" blob of weld splatter in the back at the L upper mount, snug fit, but they did have clearance.

[Piledriver]

Just heard back from John at ToughDog...

He discovered them in the US (put a set on a T1 ~1984) and was so impressed he became the 4-way distributor for Oz

Trailmaster is apparently the original, or at least the current OEM.

Hitting up Trailmaster now.

I Have An Evil Plan if that fails, and it should also work for the strut/914 rear setup, something to do this weekend...

[Piledriver]

Here's the nice response I got from John at ToughDog
in Oz:

Greg,

You should be able to purchase these bits from Trailmaster in the US.

As a matter of fact it all started in the US and I purchased a set for
a type 1 Beetle to go into a Bash car. (1984) Bit like a rally but it's
about collecting money for kids not racing!!

I also was so impressed I started importing them into OZ.

Now 29 years later, 4Way is still going strong in OZ though I believe
it has gone the other way in the US. I have a limited range of shocks
as we have moved away from this design for shocks as we specialise in
4WD product and we did not think that they were HD enough for the tough conditions in OZ.

However the RTC steering damper continues to be a big seller.

Let me know if Trailmaster cannot help you.

[ProctorSilex]

Cool beans. I had been ignoring this thread since it had been resurrected because I thought by the title it was for adjustable dampers. I'm glad I finally looked out of curiosity of why it has been top in this forum.
http://www.overlandspecialties.com/ sells Tough Dog in the USA. I just sent them a message about the 1382-4, 5050-6, and even the Trail Master 13750 from the auction.
Is http://www.trailmastersuspension.com/ the USA contact you are dealing with?
Here's another Trail Master auction: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUSPENSION-SHOC ... 0d&vxp=mtr
That one is for what looks like their steering damper. It looks like the mounts would be good for the front end (on a T1 at least).

[Piledriver]

Changed the topic title slightly to reduce confusion (a little)

Overland specialties doesn't sell the Trailmaster/4-way bits, except perhaps the RTC steering damper.

Trailmaster doesn't seem to be answering emails, I'll try calling them Friday when I'm off.

I am working on a Evil Plan using V-band clamps over split collars for the for both the adjustments and securing the top/bottom of a coil-over style spring on the 914 F&R struts.

The goal is to be both easier to adjust and more secure than the original design, easy to make in a lathe is a bonus.

I suppose I could do the ~same for the std shocks, but the parts exist for those assuming they still sell them.

BTW, it seems the only difference between "compression" and "tension" springs is how the ends are finished, std coil-over springs have flat ends, I want to take advantage of that last loop and clamp it.

[Soul]

Here's another possible clamping arrangement for the coils.

[Piledriver]

Slick implementation for std coil over, but IMHO the actual spring attachment bits would need to be much stronger to use them for push/pull 4-Way style, a bent over sheetmetal tab won't work, but a ~full perimeter spring cup setup top and bottom folded over the ends of the spring probably would, assuming the metal was thick enough.

Provides alternate ideas, I sadly keep forgetting I own 2 decent welders, and I'll wager someone makes steel spring cups for various size springs. (off to Google that)

[JWP]

Here's another possible clamping arrangement for the coils.

I was actually just drawing up something like this the other day, do you have any more pics?
I was going to make mine try to key off the shock mount on both ends rather than clamp to the shock body, mainly as a means to keep it from shifting and dropping the car to the ground.
But a hybrid of ideas may get the best of both worlds.

[Soul]

do you have any more pics?

That's the only pic I found of that particular setup. You can backyard engineer anything a guess.

[Piledriver]

TrailMaster apparently doesn't reply to emails or answer their phone...

I'll try again tomorrow before trying to implement the split//locked sway bar setup on the front this weekend.
...should be better anyway as it will be more easily set for neutral and the stiffness will be somewhat adjustable, coil springs are only available in discrete stiffnesses and the selection is pretty limited on the soft side likely needed up front on an acvw.

I have a stock Super front bar and a stock 16mm 914 rear bar to work with, I may need to lose the T3 bump stops so I don't have to run it under the rest of the suspension..

[Piledriver]

The good news: Trailmaster answered the phone.
The bad news: apparently not the same folks anymore.

The very nice fellow at the new trailmaster said they had recently bought the brand name etc, but knew absolutely nothing about any Trailmaster products from the previous operation..

Good news?: The patents are long expired, so rolling your own is no issue whatsoever.

Slotted (to go over the shock shaft) top coil-over steel spring cups are available cheap, an "around the shock" preform not so much, usually done on coil overs as an aluminum washer with threaded ID.

I was thinking about it, a touch of weld to the last coil (the flat part of a coil over spring) would probably be fast/cheap and sufficient to secure both push and pull even with abuse, but it would only come apart again with a grinder.

I'm visualizing simply doing them mostly as std coil overs, except welded(?) to the upper cup and lower threaded washer (in steel or secured somehow) with a locknut. As long as the upper had support top and bottom, it could be viable from ~off the shelf parts.

The locked at center swaybar with adjustable bits is still looking like a winner at this point.

[Mike T]

Is this any help? It popped into my head from your description. It is from a very old Magazine "The Complete Volkswagen Book No. 2" Not 4-way shocks but "Snubbers".






Mike T

[Piledriver]

That's very cool, basically another implementation of the same idea.
(or perhaps just an earlier implementation of the same idea)

I'm still looking for a set for the front, the set of the rear cured the understeer, but now it's ~pefectly controllable with the right foot on a big sweeper like some of the coverleafs around here, with another 100 HP or so it would be a fun drift car.

Would still feel more comfortable with at least an additonal bar up front, although I want the antidive etc the 4-Ways bring.

Just for fun, googled for snubbers and came up with this:
http://forums.aaca.org/attachments/f119 ... stment.pdf

Note that "snubber" is simply another term for shock absorber or damper: The Gabriel snubbers shown were probably state of the art shocks in the 1920s. Hydrauics is one way of damping a spring. Another spring is yet another...

[Mike T]

Just happened to find this old ad in a 1975 issue of Hot Rod magazine.



Mike T