The Aufgeladen Ghia

[Bruce.m]

Your max / min values are a problem.

The basic stepper settings:
Home steps - number of steps to guarantee the valve is shut, from any possible position when last shut off.
max open steps - furthest from closed that the stepper is allowed to open (some will unscrew themselves completely)
Inverted (y/n) - used if your wiring causes the stepper to home towards open instead of close, on power up

For PID, the max / min sets the range limit the PID is allowed to work in. This is in steps.

So if step 0 is totally closed, and for example, 250 is fully open. Then you might want to set home steps to 260, max open steps to 250. PID min to 20 and max to 200, assuming that covers all expected scenarios.

As it stands, your current settings limit the PiD operation to completely closed (min & max set to zero), so either the PID will do nothing since the baseline open loop setting is outside that range or the PID will immediately shut the valve & stall the engine

[Piledriver]

Ran for ages with a bosch CIS warm up air valve, just feed it 12v off coil, or even the no power but similar operation t3 DJet FI warm up air valve, latter runs off case heat, bolts into T1 fuel pump location, bimetal coil inside case.

i always found a 3 wire pwm VDO idle air valve worked far better, ~instant response.
Regardless of valve type, the min/maxsettings are the min and max settings that change the response, so you are telling the ecu the control limits. You can actually run this off fidle, routing fidle and its complement from fidles circuit to a pair of midcurrent outputs, or the main injector outs if not using them for injectors...
(if MS3/ms3x 3 wire is option anyway, centertap is fused 12v..

Set up a column in fuel and timing tables just above cranking speed, below idle with more fuel and timing.
Once well tuned, makes it spin up ~instantly and ~stall proof. (This is in the setup manual somewhere, works)

Idle timing control is a big knob too.

[xzener]

Can you post an MSQ and a data log for us to look at ? Maybe Pile or Bruce and myself can take a peek ?

Thanks Panel. I will start a log during a cold startup today and post it up. It would be great if you guys could have a look and give me some pointers. I did have a decent idle without the IAC. I then installed the IAC and got the throttle body butterfly completely closed, IAC set for idle about 36 steps. Startup IAC settings work well, and the tapper seems to also work well. Then the IAC is set for my current idle rpm, about 950 RPM, although its still hunting a bit 950-1000 RPM. I did open the butterfly just a crack so its not completely closed.

Your max / min values are a problem.

The basic stepper settings:
Home steps - number of steps to guarantee the valve is shut, from any possible position when last shut off.
max open steps - furthest from closed that the stepper is allowed to open (some will unscrew themselves completely)
Inverted (y/n) - used if your wiring causes the stepper to home towards open instead of close, on power up

For PID, the max / min sets the range limit the PID is allowed to work in. This is in steps.

So if step 0 is totally closed, and for example, 250 is fully open. Then you might want to set home steps to 260, max open steps to 250. PID min to 20 and max to 200, assuming that covers all expected scenarios.

As it stands, your current settings limit the PiD operation to completely closed (min & max set to zero), so either the PID will do nothing since the baseline open loop setting is outside that range or the PID will immediately shut the valve & stall the engine

Thanks Bruce. I have a little better understanding of the function now. Yes, inverted setting is correct as far as I know.. Open loop is working. 0 seems to be fully closed/extended. I think the settings are correct, Mick set it up for me when the IAC wasn't working correctly. I will try and set the PID values you gave me in the example and report back.

Set up a column in fuel and timing tables just above cranking speed, below idle with more fuel and timing.
Once well tuned, makes it spin up ~instantly and ~stall proof. (This is in the setup manual somewhere, works)

Thanks Piledriver. I will have a look at that and see what I can do... I get nervous adding columns and timing in that area. I don't quite have the knowledge yet as you guys do... I hope to learn a lot more from you guys soon.

Again, thanks everyone! I sure hope to get on the road soon... Although the intercooler radiator maybe needed before then, it gets upward above 100F eventually. The weather was much cooler yesterday (45F), the intercooler was keeping the temps below 85F during idle, but as it warms up, the idle needs more fuel. I will have to find where that IAC table is to compensate for the rising running temp for a more steady idle.

[xzener]

Had my best cold start to date. Turned key, a few moments later she stumbled to life. Very excited! Had a couple hiccups. Ended up with a few sync losses, which pisses me off. I've noticed them the last couple days. I have a tiny bit more gap between the crank and sensor, I suppose I could adjust it. But not going to mess with it for now. You'll notice I have to tap the TPS to pull it out of a rev... That is where Piledriver was mentioning to add cells and timing. I turned the engine off and cranked it back up with no issue. Anyways, here is the log file. Please have a look, hope you guys can help sort out my idle issues. Thanks!!

Log File

Bruce, is this what you meant? I set those values and turned it on. Wants to take over immediately after the engine fires up. Making it rev, and stall. Even while crank to run tapper is still ticking.

Capture.PNG

[panel]

If you had the idle -when warm- and when you had the IAC valve not active at 950RPM , I'd personally never touch the idle screw again. If for some reason the IAC valve fails then you've set you TB fully closed which will suck.

Don't do to many things at once. Get the car's cold start done first , then introduce the IAC valve in open loop ( no PID ) , then start the closed loop (PID) process if you actually need it. If you just need it for warm-up , then just stick to open loop (non PID ).

Also just curious why are you stuck on having the idle valve in closed loop ?

[panel]

This from the DIY website:

https://www.diyautotune.com/support/tec ... egasquirt/

PWM IAC valves or stepper motor IAC valves are continuously variable. This lets you adjust the amount of opening time as a function of temperature. There are two ways these can be run. Open loop mode (also called warmup mode) simply tells the valve to open a set amount as a function of temperature. MS1 has a two point curve, while MS2 and later lets you set a more detailed curve of IAC valve versus temperature. Closed loop mode tries to maintain a target idle speed. While not every car needs closed loop idle, it can help compensate for major changes in load. For example, if the idle drops an unacceptable amount when you turn the air conditioning on, you can use the closed loop control to compensate. MS1/Extra has a fairly crude algorithm, while MS2/Extra and MS3 use a more sophisticated (and easier to tune) method called a PID loop.

The MS/Extra code variants provide a closed loop feature that allows targeting a specific idle speed. I recommend leaving the closed loop control off until you have the engine idling well at a steady load. Both badly tuned closed loop idle and badly tuned fuel or spark settings can cause an oscillating idle. Leaving the idle in open loop (warmup) mode will let you rule out one cause of an oscillating idle and let you get just the fuel and ignition side straightened out. As a rule of thumb, trying to use closed loop settings to compensate for poor fuel or timing settings will have the ECU chasing its tail, but never really catch it. You may find the engine runs perfectly well in open loop and you don’t need closed loop, particularly on a race car with no air conditioning and few electrical loads.

[panel]

You shouldn't need the IAC valve operating when the car is fully up to temps .

" the idle needs more fuel. I will have to find where that IAC table is to compensate for the rising running temp for a more steady idle. "

[xzener]

I would like to get closed loop working for a steady 950 RPM. Plus, I was thinking it would help with my engine struggling just to come back to a steady idle after a rev. Am I thinking too much into it? I tend to do that. I can get it to idle closed butterfly, IAC not moving... As the engine warms, I need to adjust the IAC stepper motor table for adjustments? I guess where I'm confused is, after the engine is tuned on the road, what accounts for IAT temperatures?

[panel]

1st.....did you read and re-read the DIY post ?

[xzener]

Yes. Closed loop is off the table, no pun. I've had the annoying sync loss issue arise again. Fabricated another crank sensor mount, installing another similar sensor provided by Joeblow. Seems like a much smoother idle, but still having 2 to 4 losses every couple of minutes. Still have a couple tweaks to iron out on the mount, hopefully I can put this behind me soon.

[Bruce.m]

From personal experience, make sure the earth from your WBO2 module is not spliced with the ECU earth, and goes direct to your star earth point. That caused me to have phantom crank signals & sync errors, even with a hall sensor.

[panel]

Post up a pic of your AFR table and also your SPARK table if you can. Maybe your ACCEL enrichment one also.

[xzener]

From personal experience, make sure the earth from your WBO2 module is not spliced with the ECU earth, and goes direct to your star earth point. That caused me to have phantom crank signals & sync errors, even with a hall sensor.

Bruce,

Your saying to check the ground for the Wideband O2 sensor. It should not ground to ECU's ground, but to ensure star earth point... The battery negative terminal, or where that connects to the car. Sorry, I don't follow.

Looking at the schematic... The wideband controller is a daughter board on the Speeduino. Looks as though it's grounded at the chassis. The main ground for the ECU is connected to the negative battery terminal, as suggested in the instructions.

PXL_20250318_211129873.jpg

[xzener]

Post up a pic of your AFR table and also your SPARK table if you can. Maybe your ACCEL enrichment one also.

Here is a link to my tables. https://1drv.ms/u/c/f3482751812a49f0/Ec ... w?e=jErAdR


AFR is going to be WACK above 1200 RPM, haven't driven yet. The Spark Table is what is working for me ATM. The higher degrees in the low RPM high vacuum helps bring back to life after a quick rev. Still having the random sync loss... Seems to happen more around 10 degrees, which sucks because the engine loves it. Haven't touch Accel Enrichment, besides trying to kill the fuel after a rev. Currently, the engine still wants to dip below 800 RPM after a rev. Getting there... Still trying to tackle the sync loss issue. IT JUST DONNED ON ME!!! Im revving the engine, going into the RED with fuel, probably too much gas coming back to idle. Could that be it??

[Bruce.m]

If the WBO2 module is integrated into the ECU theren’t anything you can do about the wiring. The sensor has a ground from the heater element which is pretty noisy. Some WB modules separate the signal earth from the heater earth, so you can keep the latter away from the ecu. You could test the set up with the WB daughter board removed (if that is possible) to see if the sync errors remain or not. Just as a temp diagnostic process.

For my car, the first tune was open loop idle. Get the warm idle sorted and stable. Tap the throttle to correct a circle of cells, trying to hit as many as possible. Adjust the cells around the corrected ones to logical values. Rev up the rpm range to correct the top load cells (mine is NA). Once idle & light throttle cells up to 2k are good, stab the throttle to see if it stumbles hard. Add a bit of accel enrichment to prevent stalling (I probably did this after the first tuning drivie and used slow throttle inputs initially). One the road with fast auto-tune use lots of cells in the map. I left foot brake for a few seconds to hold an rpm figure while gradually adding throttle to map cells in a line. Not for long though or you will cook the brakes. Do some pulls with progress amounts of throttle. After that, do some manual smoothing of missed cells. Do another couple of tuning drives to get closer. Then add more accurate accel enrichment (can be done at a standstill since you care about how the engine responds and not the lambda reading). Finally add in the closed loop idle. That was roughly my approach after watching a lot of tuning videos!