Kadron Facts & Secrets

Do you like to go fast? Well get out of that stocker and build a hipo motor for your VW. Come here to talk with others who like to drive fast.
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FJCamper
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Kadron Facts & Secrets

Post by FJCamper »

Image

Above: One very dirty Kadron, having set long exposed. Note AJ Sims overflow tube that extends from float bowl. The top of the carb is an exhaust pipe reducer pop-riveted on to accept crankcase vent and fresh air tubes.

The Kadron is actually a Solex carb made in Brazil. Kadron is the company that resells them. In the early 1970s (maybe even a bit earlier), Kadron began packaging dual card kits for the VW, with both single and dual port manifolds.

The Kads we get are sold individually in South and Central America as the 40-44EIS as replacements for old single bbl Carter's, etc. They are not "racing" carbs by any stretch, but due to a variety of throttle bodies and venturis, and use of standard Solex jets, very tunable.

The 40-44EIS is an evolved version of the Solex 40 PBIC/PICB used on 1300-1600 Porsche 356 Super engines in the 1950's. Porsche eventually replaced the 40 PBIC and PICB with the 2bbl Zenith, which was a reasonably good carb but was overshadowed by the better Webers and Weber-like 2bbl 40mm Solex PII.

Porsche considered a 28mm venturi as the performance option on the single bbl Solexes and even the Zeniths. Kads come out of the box with 28mm venturis, so you have a good start.

There is no direct performance relationship between Solex and Weber venturi sizes because of the very different carb designs. As a rule, a Weber needs a larger venturi to achieve the same performance as a Solex ... but that's still apples and oranges.

Solexes need crossover or balance tubes to run correctly. 356's were delivered with balance tubes. The tube mainly aids idling and improves low to midrange performance.

Lots of people try to run Solexes with no balance tube (no tubes on Webers, etc., right?) and have terrible trouble. It can be done, but is in no way easy.

The advantages of Kadron-Solexes are cost, and ease of tuning if you know what you're doing. The disadvantages are poor throttle shaft bushings, poor linkages as delivered in the standard issue kits, and no vac outlet if you need to use a vac distributor.

More people are inclined to use a vac distributor on Kads than Webers. Kads see more street use than true race use, and nobody expects Webers to have vac ports (although they can).

Lots of good Weber tuning books exist. Not one Kad book is out there, and I am tempted to write one. A well tuned Kad engine can run against a well tuned Weber engine for all except the most competitive road courses.

AJ Sims has proven Kads can hold their own in drag racing.

I have set up, advocated, and used Kads since 1974. I highly reccommend them to anyone who does not want to take the time to become a Weber expert or who cannot afford the jets and venturis for Webers.

FJC
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doc
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Post by doc »

FJC,

Nice post! Lots of members using kads. Perhaps you and others can offer tuning tips?

doc
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sideshow
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Post by sideshow »

How big are the balance ports on a 356?
Yeah some may call it overkill, but you can't have too much overkill.
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Clatter
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Post by Clatter »

I recently bought a setup from AJ for a built 1914.
He admitted that it would be down on power vs. Weber 44s.
Aren"t you leaving a lot of power on the table by running Kads?
THe amount of power you get on a Weber 48 vs. 44 vs. 40 at high revs can be significant when motors get serious...
Is your class limited by displacement or other rule?
I can't imagine a racer using Kads if the rule book does not dictate the build somehow, and severely...

I don't mean to sound like a snot or something, just wanting to learn.
Last edited by Clatter on Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Speedier than a Fasting Bullet!

Beginners' how-to Type 4 build thread ---> http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145853
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FJCamper
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Balance tube

Post by FJCamper »

Image

Above: "Crossover Tube" (factory description) highlighted in yellow.

Hi Sideshow,

The 356's had a large balance tube inside diameter, about 1/2" if my memory serves. The first Kad kits I ever saw had the same.

I have had years to experiment, and found that 1/4" inside diameter works just as well.

FJC
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Piledriver
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Post by Piledriver »

The dual Solex PDSIT T4s (And IIRC T3s) also has ~ 1/2" crossover tubes.
(And a "third carb" idle only circuit feeding it in the ~ middle)

I wonder if anyone has tried copying GMs Corvair solution to getting the mixture balanced?

Corvair had log manifold with offset carb placement... Witht the right plenum (log) and runners it could probably outperform most IR setups across the powerband, if not at peak
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
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FJCamper
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Kadron VS...

Post by FJCamper »

Hi Clatter,

Yes, at sustained high RPM the Weber is doing a better job than the Kad.

Look what I posted earlier:

"A well tuned Kad engine can run against a well tuned Weber engine for all except the most competitive road courses."

My point is Webers take a lot of tuning and there are many more ways to tune them wrong than right, and the jets and venturis are expensive.

The Solex-Kadron is excellent for the guy who wants to spend less money and more time driving and less time tuning, yet get a great level of performance.

FJC
bt
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Post by bt »

FJC I would write that book if I were you.

1000's of kads + lack of correct info= $$$
Darth Weber
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Post by Darth Weber »

bt wrote:FJC I would write that book if I were you.

1000's of kads + lack of correct info= $$$
X2!! FJC, that would be awesome!! Perhaps even you and AJ could collaborate on it. That's the kind of hard core info the VW community needs, especially if it comes from someone with a lot of experience and background like yourself. Write it please!
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FJCamper
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the book

Post by FJCamper »

Hi Darth,

Ok, you talked me into it.

I will post it all on this forum first. And provide printable files to AJ for his customers.

FJC
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doc
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Post by doc »

Wow! Waiting with bated breath!! 8)

doc
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david58
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Re: Kadron Facts & Secrets

Post by david58 »

Bump
Hot, humid air is less dense than cooler, drier air. This can allow a golf ball to fly through the air with greater ease, as there won't be as much resistance on the ball.
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FJCamper
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Re: Kadron Facts & Secrets

Post by FJCamper »

Hi Doc,

My Kad book is [almost] ready -- how do we make it accessible to the forum?

FJC
Last edited by FJCamper on Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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doc
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Re: Kadron Facts & Secrets

Post by doc »

How big are we talking (words/pages)? Pics?

Which forum seems most appropriate?

With a little info, I'll find the way. We'll certainly make it sticky, so it's easy to find.

Terrific!! :D

doc
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sideshow
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Re: Kadron Facts & Secrets

Post by sideshow »

Redacted- Sorry for offering to help
Last edited by sideshow on Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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