Oh my oh my...potential solution for balljoints

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:48 am

You have to check out this site:
http://www.howeracing.com/c-25-suspension.aspx

And click on precision ball joints to get to here:
http://www.howeracing.com/c-510-howe-pr ... oints.aspx

Then take a look around. This company makes racing ball joints for Nascar and others. They also have rebuildable and replaceable ball joints...very high end heavy duty stuff. I can probably modify our existing mount to take a Chrysler screw in style joint.....so i was thinking.

Then I saw this.....click on ball joint housings near the bottom of the page

http://www.howeracing.com/p-7583-precis ... sings.aspx

And look at that three bolt precison ball joint housing...

...I wonder what the dimensions of that part are?
Since it comes iwthout the internal stud and bushing until you tell them which one you want...I'm betting we could get it with whatvere stud we need...or maybe get one close enough to what our arm size is to make it worth buying a tapered reamer.....Ray

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:04 am

Holy CRAP!.....go to www.rockauto.com.....

punch up shevrolet corvette...1980
click on suspension
click on ball joint
part # 5001010B service grade $11.17....

part # 5001010 Profesional grade...$41.79
Moog model with seperat lower steel shield...part # K6034 $51.79

look at the upper ball joint for an 82 vette.....its a DEAD RINGER for the 411/412....

. I gotta go see one tonight. If the bracket fits....it may be worth buying a rebuildable one from Howe...modfying my arm with a tapered drill...and never worrying about ball joints again. Plus.....any of tehse would have the heavy duty spring level we need to cope with any strut or spring without internal damage. Ray

tuna · Post by **tuna** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:21 pm

Sweet!! Thanks Ray for sharing that! I hope that you can come up with a great solution to the BJ issue on the 411/412. Keep us posted!

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:15 am

I havn't found anyone with a joint in stock so I can measure yet. I will.
But...a thought enterd my head. These are low enough profile from the pictures that I'm betting a simple flat bolt adaptor plate could be made if the bolt pattern proves to be to large in diameter...but still on essentially the same axis.

also...the Howe racing site noted that on request and for $....they can cut the pin and ball to custom specs. So.....if we found out that these worked...and we wanted to buy a few....we could get a group buy going.

The really cool thing about the Howe joints....is that they make an adjustable tension version. Ray

ubercrap · Post by **ubercrap** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:10 pm

raygreenwood wrote:Holy CRAP!.....go to www.rockauto.com.....

punch up shevrolet corvette...1980
click on suspension
click on ball joint
part # 5001010B service grade $11.17....
part # 5001010 Profesional grade...$41.79
Moog model with seperat lower steel shield...part # K6034 $51.79

look at the upper ball joint for an 82 vette.....its a DEAD RINGER for the 411/412.... . I gotta go see one tonight. If the bracket fits....it may be worth buying a rebuildable one from Howe...modfying my arm with a tapered drill...and never worrying about ball joints again. Plus.....any of tehse would have the heavy duty spring level we need to cope with any strut or spring without internal damage. Ray

I don't know Ray, I put new ball joints on my Dodge Dakota last year and the uppers were pretty small compared to the 411/412 ball joint. Surely the 'Vette uppers wouldn't be bigger, would they? The Dakota (press-fit type) lowers seemed like they might be more like the right scale/strength. Weren't you discussing making something before with maybe an adapter plate to accept a readily available domestic truck joint or something before? The guys making the custom race stuff will be pricey! So, a custom plate ready for easy/cheap press fit joint might be the way to go... If I had any $$$ resources at all, I know I could come up with something (and I work with several CNC machinists w/equipment at home shops, so they could probably whip me somethin' in no time for a fair price once the part was designed-office full of CAD software ).

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:45 am

Yes....I am still looking into that. The interesting thing is that a lot of what I was thinking of....and where I am thinking of getting the joints from......Howe racing is already doing.

Its not the size of the joints on our car that make then difficult or unique. The pins and ball sections are not much different than many others. The real issue is the unqiue mount....and even more especially....the weak spring inside of the 411/412 joint.
When you upgrade to stiffer shocks or springs....the ball joints take a beating. We cannot afford to wear out rare ball joints at a rate like that.

So our options are to find a way to rebuild the joints we have with better springs.....no problem on early style joints.

Or make a new bracket and use an existing screw in or press in joint (lots of work...and as you note...possible quality issues)......or a combination of both of those methods...and adjustable spring rpessures inside of teh joint.

If you look carefully, Howe racing has made joints with adjustable guts

.....and ball pin quality just not found on stock run of the mill joints.
And....if the Corvette bracket can be made to fit.....you can order joints from Howe...that are both adjustable for internal spring pressure...and have the correct pin taper for us. Ray

tuna · Post by **tuna** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:34 pm

You know Ray, I'm glad you're a 411/412 guy. I never fail to learn something from you. This is looking promising, as someday I'd like to have a lowered 411/412 with airbags and not have to worry about the ball joints, so this is an interesting topic for me.

bradey bunch · Post by **bradey bunch** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:05 pm

Any news on this Ray?

wildthings · Post by **wildthings** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:18 pm

Got an idea for someone to try. Buy one of this style ball joint from Autozone and then grind the nuts off. Now make a heavy sleeve that fits down over the joint and presses against the lip of the joint all the way around. The sleeve would need to incorporate threaded holes for the fasteners.

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:22 am

You are spot on. That is exactly what I suggested when that joint first popped up in a thread somewhere. If someone gets a joint...and can send it to me for a short period, I can test the spring tension inside (non-destructively of course) and send it back so we can compare to teh original. Ray

ubercrap · Post by **ubercrap** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:40 pm

Is that plate/housing not beefy enough?

albert · Post by **albert** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:35 am

hy,,ubercrap,,we have 2 more possibility,for the ball joint,, the edsel car and the renaud 5,,r5,, got the same ,they are sale tooday for 45 to 100.$ ,,,albert

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:33 am

ubercrap wrote:Is that plate/housing not beefy enough?

Not really....but its easily fixed with what was suggested.....adding a thiker plate....as long as the rest of the joint is beefy enough. Ray

wildthings · Post by **wildthings** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:19 pm

ubercrap wrote:Is that plate/housing not beefy enough?

Nope not beefy enough.

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:55 am

Yep...thats the problem I was worried about. I would take the nuts off with an angle grinder or dremel and them fashion a triangular plate about 10mm thick of good steel with a large hole for the joint in the center and three small threaded holes to go on the side where the nuts were.....sandwich style. Get longer bolts for the whole thing and it should then be fine. Ray

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Oh my oh my...potential solution for balljoints

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