Kelmark - likes and dislikes?

[GS guy]

Contemplating my next car project - once the Deserter is done. At the top of my list is a Kelmark. Always like the way they looked and "exotic" looks they presented. I want a closed car that's easy to live with, seals up well, good performance, relatively quiet and good looks.
I'd like to hear from anyone who has owned or driven one and what are the likes and dislikes.

I'm not too worried about some restoration work as a least 1/2 of what I've seen for sale are semi basket-cases. I'm also not super interested in trying to make the car into something else (aka: a wannabe Ferrari, or a V8 powered supercar). My thoughts are more along the lines of a nicely built-up VW pan with 944 rear suspension and brakes, "maybe" a custom a-arm front suspension - or just a well done BJ - and Subaru engine (possibly a 6) and Porsche or Subaru transaxle. AC and good heat. Good all weather car you could jump in and go whenever the mood struck. I like the idea of keeping the rear engine layout and trunk storage area for weekend get-aways - and not designing a whole new chassis like I've done on my Deserter GS (don't want to go there again!). No turbo either, BTDT on the GS. Just good N/A "sports car" performance and fun to drive.

Tell me about your experiences!
Thanks,
Jeff

[GS guy]

I guess I should show the one picture that convinced me - some 32 years ago - one day I would have to have one of these cars. I keep coming back to that same pic (among the hundreds of other pics I've seen on the internet) to renew that "want".

For some reason I never get tired of looking at this one!

[doc]

Interesting looking car. Nice stance.

doc

[GS guy]

I agree Doc - look how the wheels and tires are perfectly proportioned to the bodywork, not sunk in, too big to too small. Lowered just the right amount. It has the "look".
This was a factory demonstrator car built by Kelmark (or by whoever built their factory cars back then) around '78/79. Had a rayjay turbo 1600 that reported to accelerate "like the Millenium Falcon jumping to hiper-drive". I kind'a think that was a bit of an exaggeration .... but at least is was one of the better write-ups about driving and living with the car.

Jeff

[letterman7]

Hey Jeff,
I've only seen one Kelmark in person, and it was a factory car set up for road racing with a Buick v8 in the back. The fit and finish seemed to be pretty good, and the one great advantage was the real roll-down windows - a boon for a kit car. The only thing I don't like about them is the proportion of the tail - it's too long in the back for me. But from some angles it looks great - just like the photo posted!
Rick

[GS guy]

Thanks for your observations Rick. I agree - from some angles the car starts registering on the "cartoon-o-meter", particularly the heavy A pillars and somewhat odd side window shape. I think my two favorite views are the 3/4 front view like the pic above, and straight side view. For some reason the overall car seems to look the best (to me anyway) from those views. Maybe one or 2 will show up at this years Carlisle and I can give a critical look-over, maybe even sit in one if the owner is accommodating.

I was told by one long-time owner that the outward visibility was "one of the worst of any car he'd ever been in". Despite that, he still immensely enjoyed driving the car when the mood struck.

Jeff

[letterman7]

Make sure you stop by the Sterling booth and introduce yourself. I should be there... I don't know if my car will be, though. I haven't seen a Kelmark at Carlisle for 10 years, but you never know!

[dfhtrhjn]

A guy down the street from me had one. They look great in person, better than pictures can describe and his wasn't even as nice as the pics posted on this page. The only dislike I've got is I'm 5' 9'' and couldn't drive it because my head touched the roof and drove me nuts. It had Porsche 914 seats which are really flat already so I don't think much could be done. I'm not sure if all the kits are quite so low but this one was.

Visibility wasn't awesome, but not worse than any other car of that style.

~Steve

[GS guy]

I'm guessing Steve the Kelmark factory built car was fitted with dropped floorpans. The article mentions the 6ft. author had no problems fitting into he car and plenty of headroom - and the usual ample foot room of a VW. I'm thinking lowered floorpans would be be pretty much mandatory for this type of car!

Jeff

[jspbtown]

I rebuilt a Kelmark a few years back. I was impressed with the quality of the kit. The rear storage area was indeed handy. I did find that mine had alot of stress cracks around the front "fender" area due to a really poorly designed front support structure. The weight of the nose over powered the fiberglass and lots of cracks developed as a result. The windows on mine worked really well....when properly greased. I am 6'2" and was pretty comfortable in it. The doors needed lots of attention because they just didn't support their own weight very well. I added alot of glass to help, but if I was to do it again I would use some steel (like I am doing with my Avenger).

Overall...a well designed, well built kit for its time.

[dfhtrhjn]

Good call on the lowered floor

[GS guy]

I'm glad you provided your observations jspbtown - I remember reading you had restored one of these, and I know your work/detail restoring many different cars and kits is top-shelf. The finished car was beautiful!

Mind describing the experience actually driving the car? I see you didn't go all out on engine power, judging by the single carb. How about the rest of the experience though? Handling? Noises? Comfort and visibility? Did your car run dropped floor-pans?
I too like the decent storage area and it would be a good reason to keep the car rear-engine. Plus plenty of transmission and engine options for more zoom-zoom that way!
Jeff

[jspbtown]

Jeff,
The Kelmark was one of the cars on my kit car "bucket list" if you will. I am slowly making my way through them all and really only have a few more to finish.

As with most of the cars I have done I never really got a chance to drive it any distance. As soon as I finish them, they are posted for sale and they seem to always go real quick. This was was no exception. All I got to do was drive it up to the gas station to put some gas in it.

I did got with a very basic powerplant. It was a motor I had laying around. Just a stock 1600dp. When the plan is to re-sell, dumping alot of money into the powerplant does not seem to ever give a good return on the investment for me.

To address some of your questions:
Handling: Same as most of these kits. Kinda rough front suspension, although tire pressure changes helps alot here. Steering kinda vague and with the small steering wheel kinda heavy at low parking lot speeds. It did have front ghia discs so braking was very good.

Noises: Noise level was low. The trunk (which I carpeted) is between the engine and the cockpit so it muffles the noise pretty good. The doors seemed pretty solid and the car's fiberglass was pretty thick. I will be adding some sound deading to the Avenger I am building and from what I heard it will make a big difference. I would probably do the same to a Kelmark.

Comfort & visability: The nose did drop off quick so you really looked straight ahead. Rear visability wasn't bad at all. Mirror placement on the doors was important as the car has some high rear fender bulges. My car did not have a dropped floorpan. In fact I replaced them with stock VW pans. I also had the stock Kelmark seats with a slider for the driver with some added padding in the base of the seats. I had decent headroom. I wouldn't say "plenty" but I am 6'2" and I have a long torso. It didn't feel tight when driving it. The seating position was good. Much better than my Sterling (way too flat).

A funny story about this car. I posted it on EBAY right after I finished it and it went 6 days without getting to the reserve. I then posted it with a "buy it now" price at my reserve. Low and behold someone bought it with that option. Now remember...I had just finished it. They guy contacts me and says he was going to fly from NC to Boston, take a bus to a nearby city, and then a taxi to my home. He was then going to drive the car back to NC! I told the guy that might not be the best idea as I had not had the time to drive the car any and give it a good shake down. He insisted though. So he shows up at my home with the cash, an overnight bag, and thats it! No license plate! He gives me the cash, I make him sign a waiver stating that I had advised him against driving it so far on its first time on the road, and away he goes.

He calls me two days later to tell me he made it. He drove from MA to DC the first day. He said the only thing that happened was a heater duct that attaches to the heater boxes detached, so he just removed it. The second day he drives from DC to NC. The only thing that happened was a wiper arm blew off on the freeway. I told him thats why I like to give the cars some easy time on local roads first. He said it was no problem. He told me he got to within 30 minutes of his home before he was pulled over for no plate! He explained what was going on to the local PD and they let him go.

Pretty amazing considering it was a used VW motor with unknown miles, that I cleaned up and added some new stuff too (carb, ignition, etc etc), and a car that I had maybe 3 miles on! Anyone who has ever built a kit understands that HUGE amount of things that might not be tightened enough, or used parts that might fail, or adjustments that just areen't spot on. That trip was about 600 miles!

Anyways....I ramble. I have tons of pictures of the rebuild if yu are interested in seeing any.

Jeff

[GS guy]

Jeff - that's a great story! Appreciate you sharing your thoughts and opinion about the car.
I've often wondered how I'd handle buying a car like this long distance. I don't have a trailer, though I suppose a flat tow would be possible with a standard VW tow bar? Since these cars are pretty few and far between, I'd likely find just the one I want - halfway across the US! Having it transported would be an option, albeit an expensive one. Also, flying out and attempting to drive one back many hundreds of miles - without intimately knowing the condition of the car and drivetrain... that takes a lot of confidence in yourself! I can't believe he drove it all that way without a plate! I mean, it's not like the car would "blend in" with the normal traffic! Especially with that bright red paint! I'm glad he made it OK, which is a testament to your fabrication abilities and attention to detail. I'm with you though, I imagine when I finally get my GS done it'll be going on lots of short "local" drives as I gain confidence that it won't break down!

I can't believe you build those beautiful cars - each seems a complete rebuild from a "bucket" of parts, then put 'em right up for sale! I'm afraid I would have to put some good miles on it first, although I can understand that it will never look as good as it does right after final assembly.

Several years ago I built what I considered to be the "pinnacle" of all my VW projects - a Bug that had all the bolt-on handling tricks, 4 wheel disc brakes, lowered, low profile tires, lots of custom touches - sort of the German Look well before the style became popular. It was what I would have considered about 80% the ultimate Bug. Only 80%, because I had to stuff in a warmed over 1600 instead of the planned 2165 turbo motor I had in the works, but was needing a serious $$$ infusion to make that happen. As it was, I ended up selling the car about 6 months after completing the basic build when someone offered too good a deal (and never fitted the turbo motor). The gist of the story was - that Bug handled great! It had go-cart response, decent ride, interior comfort and cool style - everything except the killer engine! I would think a lower CG car like the Kelmark would enjoy the same handling potential but with a bit more "exotic" style. With the right drivetrain, it should make a great "sporting" car that should handle well and be a ball to drive.

I sure would like to see the build-up pics, maybe the highlights? I know you add in lots of cool and innovative "tricks" to your builds, often correcting some deficiency in the original design. Feel free to email them direct, or a link to a location if on the web?

Jeff
jgum at verizon dot net

[jspbtown]

Jeff,
I picked this one up in Lehigh PA (not sure on the spelling). It was a good trip from Western MA. I rent a u-haul car carrier every time I have gone to get a car. The only exception are dunebuggies where I just rent a little utility trailer from my local Taylor rental place. Of course now I don't have a car big enough to haul any new projects, so I had to have my brother-in-law go get my latest project for me in upstate NY (an nice Aztec 7).

I sent you some pics. I really didn't do alot of mods back in 2002....I was still learning. In fact I bought my Campbell Hausfeld mig welder to do the pans on this car. That was a big step...I had never welded anything before. I was still using a spray gun that has the pot on the bottom too, and painting outside. I have learned alot during the process of building 8 or so cars.

Its tough to see them go...especially so soon after finishing them. I always get a little nervous when they are done, and I am pricing them. I need to cover my costs in order to keep the wife's blessing. Sometimes I think I sell them for alot less then they are worth considering they sell so fast. Maybe I will be a little more aggressive with the Deserter & Aztec so I can have them around for a while!

Thanks for the nice words.