Fellas,
was wondering if the Empi aluminum 100mm p/c sets were any good?
I've been offered a nice used set for a decent price.
What do you guys think?
Craig
Empi 100mm aluminum p/c set
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craigvwdude
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Re: Empi 100mm aluminum p/c set
107 views and nobody knows anything about these? WOW!!
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helowrench
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Re: Empi 100mm aluminum p/c set
yup.craigvwdude wrote:107 views and nobody knows anything about these? WOW!!
I have never heard of them.
Are they Biral style?
alum fins on steel cylinder sleeve?
also, do you have a link?
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craigvwdude
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Re: Empi 100mm aluminum p/c set
Yep, aluminum fins, steel sleeves.
Nope, don't have any links.
What I have heard is that Empi made them a while back. Don't know if they were too much money, or just not any good. Doesn't seem to be many out there.
Nope, don't have any links.
What I have heard is that Empi made them a while back. Don't know if they were too much money, or just not any good. Doesn't seem to be many out there.
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Piledriver
- Moderator
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- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 12:01 am
Re: Empi 100mm aluminum p/c set
EMPI was once a cutting edge manufacturer of performance parts...
If they were the ones from 20+ years ago, they might be great, made by Mahle etc.
IIRC these have a unique head register a bit smaller than 103s.
Might allow for a better seal.
If they were the ones from 20+ years ago, they might be great, made by Mahle etc.
IIRC these have a unique head register a bit smaller than 103s.
Might allow for a better seal.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
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helowrench
- Posts: 1925
- Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:20 am
Re: Empi 100mm aluminum p/c set
I have been eyeballing a new set of the 98mm AA Biral copies for a future 1991/2142 build.
The limited usage reports that I could find on the AA version was good reports on bug/ghia and mixed reviews on the bus usage.
After thinking for a while on your situation..................
the basic principles apply, ergo, if you have the capabilities, check them, or have a good machinist check them for out of round, and taper.
The Birals that fail seem to have an ovaling condition present, usually in line with the head stud cutouts.
Run them up to 400 degrees or so in your home oven (make sure the Wife/SO is not home, ask me how I know) and make sure the AL parts are still tight on the steel sleeve.
If the conditions are good, they would not be any less viable than the newer produced versions out there.
Rob
The limited usage reports that I could find on the AA version was good reports on bug/ghia and mixed reviews on the bus usage.
After thinking for a while on your situation..................
the basic principles apply, ergo, if you have the capabilities, check them, or have a good machinist check them for out of round, and taper.
The Birals that fail seem to have an ovaling condition present, usually in line with the head stud cutouts.
Run them up to 400 degrees or so in your home oven (make sure the Wife/SO is not home, ask me how I know) and make sure the AL parts are still tight on the steel sleeve.
If the conditions are good, they would not be any less viable than the newer produced versions out there.
Rob
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Frallan
- Posts: 667
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Re: Empi 100mm aluminum p/c set
I bought a set of AA 98 mm Birals and JE forged pistons.
I will report by year end how it works.
I will report by year end how it works.
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dunegoon
- Posts: 253
- Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:01 am
Re: Empi 100mm aluminum p/c set
I have a set of Saco Biral 105's that have been pretty nice. I ran them for years in my sandrail until, after several incidents with air cleaner failures, they acquired some deep scratches. I had Pauter bore them to 105.25 and they got me a set of JE pistons to match. Besides any other advantage, that people may mention, I will add that the engine is probably 20 pounds lighter. If I was to build another "nothing spared" engine, I'd get a set of Nickies. But a set of 100mm Birals would be hard to pass up as well. If they are not perfect, you might contact someone about honing them to clean them up and then get a set of custom pistons.
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Wally
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Re: Empi 100mm aluminum p/c set
What is the wall thickness of the steel liner on these Empi's?
T4T: 2,4ltr Type 4 Turbo engine, 10.58 1/4 mi in a streetlegal 1303
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
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Frallan
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Re: Empi 100mm aluminum p/c set
I will see if I can find pictures of these beautiful cylinders.
Steel sleeve with blue anodized fins shrunk on top, in a very well tested way.
They were part of many races and series wins. So they do work!
The text comes from an article I wrote in Hot VW´s 1996 about the Bug professors Ambjörn and Martin Carlsson.
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Frallan
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Re: Empi 100mm aluminum p/c set
HD ORCA cylinders that also have proven to work very well.
Same concept.
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Wally
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Re: Empi 100mm aluminum p/c set
No doubt they have, but thats exactly why I have doubts if EMPI did so for the niche market of the type 4 engine in those days... and hence the short-cut question about wall thicknessFrallan wrote: Steel sleeve with blue anodized fins shrunk on top, in a very well tested way.
They were part of many races and series wins. So they do work!
The text comes from an article I wrote in Hot VW´s 1996 about the Bug professors Ambjörn and Martin Carlsson.
T4T: 2,4ltr Type 4 Turbo engine, 10.58 1/4 mi in a streetlegal 1303
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
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Frallan
- Posts: 667
- Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2003 12:01 am
Re: Empi 100mm aluminum p/c set
No personal attack on you Wally!
Just trying to prove my point that Biral concept does work and the only Global solution to good cylinders are not just the option of Billet Aluminium cores with nicasil plating.
There are options.
Just know your needs and what each product can and cannot do. Which is not so easy.
Now I will not express myself in more detail......I think you can read me anyway.
As for the Empis, which this thread is about. I have nothing to add unfortunately.
Just trying to prove my point that Biral concept does work and the only Global solution to good cylinders are not just the option of Billet Aluminium cores with nicasil plating.
There are options.
Just know your needs and what each product can and cannot do. Which is not so easy.
Now I will not express myself in more detail......I think you can read me anyway.
As for the Empis, which this thread is about. I have nothing to add unfortunately.
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craigvwdude
- Posts: 992
- Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2006 12:13 pm
Re: Empi 100mm aluminum p/c set
I'll try to measure them tonight after work.
I got them for a good price so sometime i'll use them on a project and try them out.
I got them for a good price so sometime i'll use them on a project and try them out.
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Zaphod Beetlebrox
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Re: Empi 100mm aluminum p/c set
IIRC , the Empi 100´s were mentioned in two issues of "VW Trends" back in 1990.
Back then, they strongly promoted the type IV engine ( and EMW ??) for use in type I / III´s.
(searched in my chaos {aka archive},but couldn´t find it; but I will dig on)
IIRC they said,they cooked an Empi 100 cylinder in an oven and measured it.
They said the cylinder goes out of round,and that the 100mm cylinder would wear out quick
it a short time.(don´t know how much their articles are biased,because they recommended
the (cast iron) EMW 103´s and their other parts very stongly)
But I would, if they are good priced, buy them already as an "antiqe artefact" (imho.{the real!}
EMPI is the "cornerstone" of VW performance{like Okrasa in europe}) and display them in your
livingrooms "shrine"(if you have one; my gouverment (aka woman) prohibited this
).
best regards
Frank
Back then, they strongly promoted the type IV engine ( and EMW ??) for use in type I / III´s.
(searched in my chaos {aka archive},but couldn´t find it; but I will dig on)
IIRC they said,they cooked an Empi 100 cylinder in an oven and measured it.
They said the cylinder goes out of round,and that the 100mm cylinder would wear out quick
it a short time.(don´t know how much their articles are biased,because they recommended
the (cast iron) EMW 103´s and their other parts very stongly)
But I would, if they are good priced, buy them already as an "antiqe artefact" (imho.{the real!}
EMPI is the "cornerstone" of VW performance{like Okrasa in europe}) and display them in your
livingrooms "shrine"(if you have one; my gouverment (aka woman) prohibited this
).best regards
Frank