Shoptalkforums.com

Fellas,
was wondering if the Empi aluminum 100mm p/c sets were any good?
I've been offered a nice used set for a decent price.
What do you guys think?

Craig

107 views and nobody knows anything about these? WOW!!

craigvwdude wrote:107 views and nobody knows anything about these? WOW!!

yup.
I have never heard of them.
Are they Biral style?
alum fins on steel cylinder sleeve?

also, do you have a link?

Yep, aluminum fins, steel sleeves.
Nope, don't have any links.
What I have heard is that Empi made them a while back. Don't know if they were too much money, or just not any good. Doesn't seem to be many out there.

EMPI was once a cutting edge manufacturer of performance parts...

If they were the ones from 20+ years ago, they might be great, made by Mahle etc.
IIRC these have a unique head register a bit smaller than 103s.
Might allow for a better seal.

I have been eyeballing a new set of the 98mm AA Biral copies for a future 1991/2142 build.

The limited usage reports that I could find on the AA version was good reports on bug/ghia and mixed reviews on the bus usage.

After thinking for a while on your situation..................
the basic principles apply, ergo, if you have the capabilities, check them, or have a good machinist check them for out of round, and taper.
The Birals that fail seem to have an ovaling condition present, usually in line with the head stud cutouts.
Run them up to 400 degrees or so in your home oven (make sure the Wife/SO is not home, ask me how I know) and make sure the AL parts are still tight on the steel sleeve.

If the conditions are good, they would not be any less viable than the newer produced versions out there.

Rob

I bought a set of AA 98 mm Birals and JE forged pistons.
I will report by year end how it works.

I have a set of Saco Biral 105's that have been pretty nice. I ran them for years in my sandrail until, after several incidents with air cleaner failures, they acquired some deep scratches. I had Pauter bore them to 105.25 and they got me a set of JE pistons to match. Besides any other advantage, that people may mention, I will add that the engine is probably 20 pounds lighter. If I was to build another "nothing spared" engine, I'd get a set of Nickies. But a set of 100mm Birals would be hard to pass up as well. If they are not perfect, you might contact someone about honing them to clean them up and then get a set of custom pistons.

What is the wall thickness of the steel liner on these Empi's?

I will see if I can find pictures of these beautiful cylinders.
Steel sleeve with blue anodized fins shrunk on top, in a very well tested way.
They were part of many races and series wins. So they do work!

The text comes from an article I wrote in Hot VW´s 1996 about the Bug professors Ambjörn and Martin Carlsson.

HD ORCA cylinders that also have proven to work very well.
Same concept.

Frallan wrote: Steel sleeve with blue anodized fins shrunk on top, in a very well tested way.
They were part of many races and series wins. So they do work!

The text comes from an article I wrote in Hot VW´s 1996 about the Bug professors Ambjörn and Martin Carlsson.

No doubt they have, but thats exactly why I have doubts if EMPI did so for the niche market of the type 4 engine in those days... and hence the short-cut question about wall thickness

No personal attack on you Wally!
Just trying to prove my point that Biral concept does work and the only Global solution to good cylinders are not just the option of Billet Aluminium cores with nicasil plating.
There are options.
Just know your needs and what each product can and cannot do. Which is not so easy.

Now I will not express myself in more detail......I think you can read me anyway.

As for the Empis, which this thread is about. I have nothing to add unfortunately.

I'll try to measure them tonight after work.
I got them for a good price so sometime i'll use them on a project and try them out.

IIRC , the Empi 100´s were mentioned in two issues of "VW Trends" back in 1990.
Back then, they strongly promoted the type IV engine ( and EMW ??) for use in type I / III´s.
(searched in my chaos {aka archive},but couldn´t find it; but I will dig on)
IIRC they said,they cooked an Empi 100 cylinder in an oven and measured it.
They said the cylinder goes out of round,and that the 100mm cylinder would wear out quick
it a short time.(don´t know how much their articles are biased,because they recommended
the (cast iron) EMW 103´s and their other parts very stongly)
But I would, if they are good priced, buy them already as an "antiqe artefact" (imho.{the real!}
EMPI is the "cornerstone" of VW performance{like Okrasa in europe}) and display them in your
livingrooms "shrine"(if you have one; my gouverment (aka woman) prohibited this ).

best regards
Frank