Historic Sportscar Racing: Sebring Dec. 2015

Do you like to go fast? Well get out of that stocker and build a hipo motor for your VW. Come here to talk with others who like to drive fast.
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FJCamper
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Historic Sportscar Racing: Sebring Dec. 2015

Post by FJCamper »

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Above. Lions and tigers and bears, oh my! That's some stiff competition. Find the Ghia. Waldo left it parked on the grid, first car in top line from top left.


We Get Beat by Our Own Webers

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Those of you who know us at RetroRacing know we favor what the VW guys call Kadrons, but by the Porsche types as Solexes.
Today's garden variety Kad can be traced right back to the big single-barrel Solexes that came on Speedster Supers. Except the
modern Kad is a more tunable carb, with replaceable throttle bodies.

The problem with the single barrel Solexes is they, because of intake manifold design don't flow as much as the Webers, and top
end is less. But, low and midrange power is excellent. The Kaddie Shack in Pasadena makes Kadron carbs that beat V8 Mustangs
at the drags, using just port-matched stock manifolds.

Apparently overlooked by a majority of VW tuners is information in Bill Fisher's 1971 epic "How to Hotrod VW Engines" in his carb
dyno tests. A set of cheap Holly Bug Spray carbs on 28mm venturis almost exactly equaled Weber 48's on 35mm vents up to 5500
RPM. Fisher felt with a little work, the Holley's would do better.

Normally we would have come to race with Solexes fitted, but I made the decision to use our Weber 44 IDF's instead, hoping for
some extra top end on the long Sebring straights.

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We drove the long 14 hours from Birmingham to Sebring in south Florida, towing our newly rebuilt Ghia. It had last been on a race
track in May 2007. It had spent the last eight years in storage as we campaigned a 1965 swing axle Ghia. Over the last few months,
we had rebuilt the IRS Ghia with HSR in mind. We called the '65 our "Mexico Ghia" in honor of its participation in the Carrera. The IRS
Ghia we will call the Sprint Ghia. Most HSR practice and qualifying sessions and races are sprints of about fifteen minutes duration.

For aero, the Sprint Ghia uses a front airdam and 911 RSR-style duck tail. Also, we have added caster and negative camber up front,
four-wheel disk brakes with 9" diameter rotors and ATE-style dual 40mm calipers, Prothane suspension bushings everywhere, and we
have a 19mm swaybar on the axle beam and none on the rear suspension.

Lowering is accomplished with tire aspect ratios, and a 3.88 final drive allows for about 140mph in 4th with 60-series Falken radials.

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Quick-steer and quick-shift kits, and an aluminum driver's seat provide direct tactile feedback. And to accommodate different height
driver's, several steering wheels with different dish depths, all on the same quick-release hardware.

Our Ghia, a 1970 body on a 1972 chassis, is in HSR Class VP4. At HSR, that means being mixed in with the Porsche 912's, Austin
Healy 3000's, MGB's, TR-4's, and basically anything SCCA E-Production. We have a good dry sump system, but we need all the cubic
inches we can get.

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Above: Something for everybody -- the Sprint Ghia on track in the background, a Porsche 906 in the foreground between
a big-inch John Greenwood type 'Vette and RSR-styled 911.


A loop hole for the series of VW engines used in the Type 4 and Type 2 vehicles makes us eligible for 2-liters. There is no official "Type 4"
engine, just as there is no official Type 3 engine.

For whatever lucky reason, in the 1972 SCCA GCR (general competition rules) the 1679 cc displacement for the 1700 cc used in the Type 4
sedan was listed as approved for the '72 Ghia. Under most vintage racing practices, that means all following displacements from 1679 cc to
the 1.8 (1795 cc) and 1971 cc (2.0) end of production sizes are grandfathered to us. That means we can run 2 litres when we wish.

Notice we are only specifying displacement, not actual engine number or type. We don't even have to use what we think of as "Type 4" cases
and parts ... this is what's called "racing the rule book."

We have two driver's for this event, both LeMons and Chump veterans in the Blitzwagen. Young David Scott is new both to Sebring and HSR.
"There are cars here I've never seen before, and I still want them," he says. As we towed over the bridge into the track, he heard a Shelby
GT350 Mustang roar past under us in practice. "That did it," he says. "My nipples are so hard now they could cut glass."

The Sprint Ghia had some immediate but minor problems right off the trailer. A broken ignition rotor (presumed crew error from not having both
distributor cap spring clips snapped down, and one clip jammed inside the distributor), and a brand new distributor cap misfiring because of plastic
flash being molded over two internal contacts. Lesson learned. Stick to Bosch Bakelite caps.

On our first practice session, co-driver Jamie "Jamrod" Chambers was setting on the grid, waiting for the wave-off to the track, when he noticed
that revving over 3k RPM, up to 5k, the engine was missing. When he did get to the track, there was nothing above 5k but an engine with no power
and loud popping and backfiring.

Back in the shop, the engine had idled well and tuned properly, but we were not revving the hell out it while under no load.

Jamie makes a couple of laps and comes in. He was a rolling roadblock in a meteor storm of serious racers.

Back in the paddock, we check out fuel cell breathing, timing, ignition, jets, fuel pressure and delivery, valve adjustments, but it all seemed right. If
anything, the problem was getting worse. David and Jamie were blaming the Weber 44's. I was not so sure, figuring if it was the Webers, the same
thing had to be wrong with both of them. I expected something more like a bizarre, hidden problem in all the new wiring.

All the time we worked on the Sprint Ghia, concerned spectators and HSR members kept coming and offering whatever help they could.
Most of them loved the Ghia, many had their photos taken with it, and we began to feel that we didn't have to race, just show up and
sell "Touch The Ghia" tickets.

The Ghia is in it's element at HSR. It's curvy beauty fits in. Most of the automotive Philistines you meet on the street don't know or care
much about a Ghia, unless they had a friend who had one in college (or where ever) and it was fun.

Without spare carbs, after a day we finally pack up and tow 14 hours home. The trip is rife with speculation about what all the problem
might be, but we agree on one thing. Before doing anything else, we will swap the Webers for a set of Solexes and see what happens.

Jamie does the swap. The Solexes go on, and the engine starts easily and runs, warms up, and revs high strong for as long as we're
bold enough to hold down the throttle. We didn't even set the idle mixture.

I'll do a postmortem on the Webers later. I doubt we'll ever use anything Weber ever again, now that we've commissioned custom Solex
manifolds made to even the playing field.

Our next HSR is Road Atlanta in March, at the famous/infamous MITTY.

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ps2375
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Re: Historic Sportscar Racing: Sebring Dec. 2015

Post by ps2375 »

Sorry to read this, never fun when equipment failure prevents all the fun.. So far my IDF's haven't caused me any problems, and they sat on the car parked for over 20yrs. And the one that had gotten water in it cleaned up nicely(wish I could've said the same about the cylinder that the water drained to).

That looks to a nice and tidy package, better luck in the future. Maybe some dyno comparisons in the future?
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4agedub
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Re: Historic Sportscar Racing: Sebring Dec. 2015

Post by 4agedub »

FJC, the ghia looks good. Pity about your issues with the carbs.

On our 1914cc we ran 44idf's for years and the only major issue we had was that the idle circuit would get clogged up often. Even with air filters. Besides that the 44's were pretty easy to tune and ran smooth. On the 48 ida's we mainly had needle/seat issues. (That cost us an engine). So we now use the 48 ida's as throttle bodies with EFI injectors mounted on the intakes. Problem solved.

Looking at your photos, would it not make sense to maybe extend the roll cage forward past the driver's feet as well? In the last two years I have been T boned twice. Both times the sissy bars saved my rump. I would not race without proper side impact bars.

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andy198712
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Re: Historic Sportscar Racing: Sebring Dec. 2015

Post by andy198712 »

shame about the result :(

do tell us about the new manifolds??
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FJCamper
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Re: Historic Sportscar Racing: Sebring Dec. 2015

Post by FJCamper »

Gentlemen,

4AgeDub; We have a very minimal six-point bolt-in roll bar in the HSR Ghia. It is historically correct, as this was what the Sports Car Club of America specified in 1972 for SCCA Showroom Stock sports cars. I fully understand your noticing of the bolt-in bar's construction. What you can't see is how we're cross-bracing the inside of the driver's door. It would undoubtedly worry you to see how small the roll cage bars were and how little there was of them back in the 1970's Porsche RSR and 930-series days.

Also, I stripped one of our two Weber 44's today, hoping to find something, anything, wrong. No luck. My best luck with Webers has been with 48's. I used them extensively in the 1970's and had few if any problems. All I can say at this point is my 44's are demoniacally possessed.

Andy; The announcement for custom manifolds at whatever price will officially come from Kaddie Shack as soon as Jeff feels the protoypes are all he expects. The Kads CFM is going to be really improved. We should come close to a 48mm Weber.

FJC
andy198712
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Re: Historic Sportscar Racing: Sebring Dec. 2015

Post by andy198712 »

Blimey! Sounds like a real plus for the kads corner!
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FJCamper
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Re: Historic Sportscar Racing: Sebring Dec. 2015

Post by FJCamper »

Hi Andy,

In my excitement, I wrote 48 Weber, but meant 44 Weber. Sorry.

I am not a Weberphobe. I admire and respect them, but Kads have spoiled me. I wrote the "Complete Kadron Manual" which is sold on Amazon and some VW parts stores, to include the upscale Autobooks.

On special 48mm throttle bodies and highly rewelded/reworked manifolds, A.J. Sims has gotten over 300 CFM, but we're shooting for a 44mm throttle-body bolt-on manifold that will run as good or better than a good 44 Weber on its best day.

Actually, I am surprised no one commented on to my disclosure on the 1972 SCCA GCR where the Ghia gets designated as 1671cc and the following 1.8 and 2.0 litre engines sizes are therefore grandfathered in at many vintage organizations, or technically there was no Type 4 engine, just a Type 4 vehicle. Parts numbers changed, but the engines we think of as Type 4's were evolving developments of the 4-cyl, aircooled VW engine first used in the Type 1 vehicle.

FJC
andy198712
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Re: Historic Sportscar Racing: Sebring Dec. 2015

Post by andy198712 »

can you not run 2.1 then? aka wbx? ;)
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FJCamper
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Re: Historic Sportscar Racing: Sebring Dec. 2015

Post by FJCamper »

Hi Andy,

My guess is the judges will draw a line somewhere. We're happy with the 2 litre.

FJC
buildabiggerboxer
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Re: Historic Sportscar Racing: Sebring Dec. 2015

Post by buildabiggerboxer »

Hi FJC, I had a troublesome speedster replica in the 'shop that had been in and out of several repair shops, usual intermittent vanishing performance after carb cleaning and tune ups, it wore Webber 44's, it turned Out to be corroded pump jet diaphragm springs from a past water in carbs event, what was happening was flakes of corroded Spring material blocked the pump jets to varying degrees, new diaphragm springs worked their magic, no more blocked pumps.
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FJCamper
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Re: Historic Sportscar Racing: Sebring Dec. 2015

Post by FJCamper »

Hi Buildabiggerboxer!

That is a very savvy tip, especially as I was unscrewing and tappping the check-ball accel pump jets just yesterday.

Looks like we had a sticky or failing needle and seat on one side.

FJC
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Piledriver
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Re: Historic Sportscar Racing: Sebring Dec. 2015

Post by Piledriver »

They make fine ITBs...
Can you even run EFI?
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
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FJCamper
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Re: Historic Sportscar Racing: Sebring Dec. 2015

Post by FJCamper »

Hi Piledriver,

The rules keep us "period correct" and allow whatever mods were available back in the day we can prove were not just available but used.

This period correct policy cuts both ways. For example, anybody else would ban us from the track for trying to run a roll bar and not a cage, especially a bolt-in roll bar!

HSR does advertise itself as "a time machine of sight and sound," so it is what it is. I am aware of some fuel injection from 1970-72, mainly simple direct injection into tall-stack manifold systems.

I walk around the paddock and see old Shelbys with modern MSD ignition, and other contemporary parts. There was even a kit-car Porsche 904 at this last Sebring, so there is some flexibility somewhere.

I believe these modified, rewelded, port-matched Kadron manifolds (44mm throttle body) we're having made up for Road Atlanta in the spring will put us on par with Weber 44's for overall flow. And being able to legally run a 2-litre should even the playing field considerably with the Austin Healeys and MGB's.

This is great fun.

FJC
Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: Historic Sportscar Racing: Sebring Dec. 2015

Post by Ol'fogasaurus »

FJ, could you weld up your own custom manifolds like Deathbysnusnu has done?

Very cool string and more interesting info.

Lee
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Piledriver
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Re: Historic Sportscar Racing: Sebring Dec. 2015

Post by Piledriver »

Too bad, I always wonder why * racing organisations frequently ban EFI...
its been proven many times EFI won't make any more max power than carbs, but it should be a drivability and reliability bonus.
A new set of Webers cost about the same as a MS2 setup full up, pump and all.

*I get the reasoning for historic racing.
Too bad no one could mod Djet back in the day to run ITBs.

A megasquirt fits in the djet ecu box nicely.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
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