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CPS or Cali type4 conversion into a Ghia
Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 1:26 pm
by Gnasha
I'm considering the merits of both designs and have some concerns.
CPS, I can't find how the under cylinder cooling functions and is it capable. I'm assuming the original type 4 under cooling tin remains?
I'd like to retain the cooling flaps and thermostat similar to type 1 operation will this fit ?
Which ever I chose I'd like to use the inter grated T1 cooler in the dog house.
Any photos would be very much appreciated especially of under cylinder tin used in CPS
Re: CPS or Cali type4 conversion into a Ghia
Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 2:42 pm
by bushoarder
Here’s my Cali type 4 of it helps?
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Re: CPS or Cali type4 conversion into a Ghia
Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 9:49 pm
by cal 67
CSP, not CPS.
They use the same style tins, don't they? You'd just retain your same under-cylinder tins.
Re: CPS or Cali type4 conversion into a Ghia
Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 10:10 pm
by H2OSB
cal 67 wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:49 pm
CSP, not CPS.
They use the same style tins, don't they? You'd just retain your same under-cylinder tins.
Yes, but with CSP set up, I don't THINK you can use the thermostat flaps, nor the doghouse oil cooler(I could be wrong about the cooler), otherwise there's a lot to like about the CSP kit. I'm doing a Cali conversion for my T4(in a super beetle), but will likely use the CSP alt stand and oil filler.
Another option to consider is the Sharpbuilt kit out of Australia. He actually based it off of the Cali set up.
http://www.sharpbuilt.com.au/sharpbuilt1/page11.htm
H2OSB
Re: CPS or Cali type4 conversion into a Ghia
Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 7:38 am
by cal 67
The CSP kit only has cylinder covers, an oil filler, alternator bracket, pulleys, and smaller do-dads. They expect you to use a T1 cooler in the aftermarket doghouse. As far as using t-stat flaps and a bellows, you'll have to engineer that for yourself, which isn't a bad idea really.
Re: CPS or Cali type4 conversion into a Ghia
Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 11:51 am
by Gnasha
Thanks for the help guys, much appreciated.
Re: CPS or Cali type4 conversion into a Ghia
Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 12:03 pm
by bushoarder
I used the stock type 1 barrel tins and type 4 under tins. I didn’t use the cool tins from the type 4.
I haven’t got a thermostat in mine but will do this year when I take out to clean it up and paint it. It’s in development status right now.
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Re: CPS or Cali type4 conversion into a Ghia
Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 1:13 pm
by NextGen
Hi Guys , A Cali Style or CPS will run extremely cool seeing the T-4 engine is hardly working to push a bug . So T-1 cooler in a Bug OK and in a Bus is fine..
As for the Flaps and Thermo. In cooler parts of the world you will need the Thermo and flaps or you will not reach running temp. of 170 f I had to go to a 90 c thermo.
Maybe in Calif . where it is hot all time you can get away without thermo.
T-4 is a very forgiving engine. Not like a T-1 built to anywhere near the size of a T- 4 Stock 2.0 will out last any T-1 even stock 1.6.
Nice job --- hard to tell not a T-1..
Re: CPS or Cali type4 conversion into a Ghia
Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 1:29 pm
by H2OSB
NextGen wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2019 1:13 pm
Hi Guys , A Cali Style or CPS will run extremely cool seeing the T-4 engine is hardly working to push a bug . So T-1 cooler in a Bug OK and in a Bus is fine..
As for the Flaps and Thermo. In cooler parts of the world you will need the Thermo and flaps or you will not reach running temp. of 170 f I had to go to a 90 c thermo.
Maybe in Calif . where it is hot all time you can get away without thermo.
T-4 is a very forgiving engine. Not like a T-1 built to anywhere near the size of a T- 4 Stock 2.0 will out last any T-1 even stock 1.6.
Nice job --- hard to tell not a T-1..
Joe--
You point about the thermostat and flaps is a good one, but I'm in the central valley of California and still think it's a good idea. We do get 110 degrees in the summer, but we can also get down into the teens once in a while in the winter. However, as you've told me in the past, the T1 oil cooler will do the job nicely when a T4 is pushing a spritely little beetle around.
I'm doing a Cali conversion (from the book) but I'm ascared to make my own alt stand.
H2OSB
Re: CPS or Cali type4 conversion into a Ghia
Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 2:55 pm
by wreck
Just my thoughts on thermostats . If you look at 911 Porsches they do not have an air thermostat ,only an oil one . I don't have flaps in my fan shroud but do have a Mocal 180f thermostat oil filter sandwich block . I have a couple of oil coolers with properly shrouded fans that are tucked up out of the air flow again with a 180f fan switch . It regulates my oil temp between 70C and 90C (switching points of the switch) regardless of ambient temps.
It is a lot simpler to do than fabricate flap type thermostats . Another option for colder climates it to run a CSP lower pulley meant for 911 fans , to slow the fan speed down .
Check out the pulley ratio I run and still did not run hot even sitting in traffic on 35C humid days . engine is a 2.6 litre , 170 WHP .
ac serpintine ..jpg
Re: CPS or Cali type4 conversion into a Ghia
Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 3:53 pm
by H2OSB
wreck wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2019 2:55 pm
Just my thoughts on thermostats . If you look at 911 Porsches they do not have an air thermostat ,only an oil one . I don't have flaps in my fan shroud but do have a Mocal 180f thermostat oil filter sandwich block . I have a couple of oil coolers with properly shrouded fans that are tucked up out of the air flow again with a 180f fan switch . It regulates my oil temp between 70C and 90C (switching points of the switch) regardless of ambient temps.
It is a lot simpler to do than fabricate flap type thermostats . Another option for colder climates it to run a CSP lower pulley meant for 911 fans , to slow the fan speed down .
Check out the pulley ratio I run and still did not run hot even sitting in traffic on 35C humid days . engine is a 2.6 litre , 170 WHP .
ac serpintine ..jpg
Well, I can't argue with that. Where did you locate the thermostatically controlled oil coolers? I'm only building a 2056 and it doesn't get REAL cold like other places. Any issues getting the oil up to temp?
You're the guy who made his own fan housing, yes? Did that make a significant difference in cooling? Would everything apply if I'm just going with a 36hp doghouse?
H2OSB
Re: CPS or Cali type4 conversion into a Ghia
Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 5:26 pm
by wreck
I got the thermostat off EBay , and fan switch from CIP . Yes I think with the cooling system being more even over the cylinders you can get away with less air flow , as your engine is only as cool as the hottest cylinder .I'd like to hear from anyone with a standard Cali type system what the spread of CHT's are. If you have a look at factory type 1 cylinder tins there is a simple guide vane to guide more air to the more shrouded cylinder head .
Re: CPS or Cali type4 conversion into a Ghia
Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:02 pm
by cal 67
H2OSB wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2019 1:29 pm
NextGen wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2019 1:13 pm
Hi Guys , A Cali Style or CPS will run extremely cool seeing the T-4 engine is hardly working to push a bug . So T-1 cooler in a Bug OK and in a Bus is fine..
As for the Flaps and Thermo. In cooler parts of the world you will need the Thermo and flaps or you will not reach running temp. of 170 f I had to go to a 90 c thermo.
Maybe in Calif . where it is hot all time you can get away without thermo.
T-4 is a very forgiving engine. Not like a T-1 built to anywhere near the size of a T- 4 Stock 2.0 will out last any T-1 even stock 1.6.
Nice job --- hard to tell not a T-1..
Joe--
You point about the thermostat and flaps is a good one, but I'm in the central valley of California and still think it's a good idea. We do get 110 degrees in the summer, but we can also get down into the teens once in a while in the winter. However, as you've told me in the past, the T1 oil cooler will do the job nicely when a T4 is pushing a spritely little beetle around.
I'm doing a Cali conversion (from the book) but I'm ascared to make my own alt stand.
H2OSB
I can supply you a stand, or a whole kit, if you'd like. Stands alone are $75
CPS or Cali type4 conversion into a Ghia
Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:30 pm
by Ephry73
Having had both a Cali/CSP conversion and DTM (OG) shrouds in a Ghia, I’d go DTM again. I would do a few things differently, but definitely DTM.
Since that’s a super expensive route nowadays, the Cali conversion with the air flow correctors and just the air flaps/deflectors plus an oil cooler and thermostat setup is the way to go.
Spend the cash in a good exhaust system
And ignition and a way to keep an eye on the oil temps and head temps as well as your air EGT
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