T4 Into T3 Build Questions - With Reference Links for Future Swaps

[nogoodwithusernames]

Current edit: Pulled motor for a new trans, got the tins cleaned up and finished up a set of sled tins to use with the rest of the 914 cooling tins. Running now 1.7 heater boxes and a T4 equal length header. Need to find a way to mount the 914 heater flapper controls.


Good Morning or whatever time of day it may be when/where you are reading this.
I've recently picked up a type 4 case and a single head from a local VW guy that was closing down shop, and it has me interested in coming over to the dark side with my square back. It currently has a 1956cc type 1 with megasquirt EFI, but it's high compression and has some oil leaks and blowby issues that could be eliminated with a factory stock 2.0l I would think. I could re-build it with bigger chambers and get new rings to get them seated but if I'm going to all that work why not do it right??

Anyways my biggest question for a mild stock-ish 2.0l TIV would be what specific bits do I need? (I'd like to do this in the style of clatters sweep the floor build, good stock parts on the cheap.) I have an EB case with the oil fill open so it should be a '73 1.7 411/412 case. According to what I've read that should be better than a case out of a bus.
I'm also hoping to pick up some bits and pieces this weekend at bug-o-rama. I think either type 4 tins or 914 tins are good, and combine that with bus heat exchangers, and a Vanagon mounting bar are the way to go? Then for internals a 71 stroke crank, and some stock P&C's if I can find some in good shape, 1.7 heads or try to find some 914 2.0s that aren't cracked?

I'd like to then convert the stock FI runners and TB to run with the MS EFI I have to keep it looking stock but also be able to run a bit perkier of a cam, probably the CB street power cam.

This will be a long term project as the square is currently on daily driver duty while I rebuild my Honda engine
I appreciate any input I get here, and will continue my research and reading of what those who've done this before have done. Unfortunately a lot of old photos on this site are lost but still lots of good info.


--Reference List--
(Ongoing, please PM or post on the thread if you have some useful tips or photos that should be shared here.)

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=116220&hilit=conversion (Old conversion thread missing some photos)

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewt ... p?t=581759 (Black Fastback thread from Clatter)

http://pws.cablespeed.com/~danielzink/notchback.htm (Daniel's Notch photos)

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewt ... tf#7106953 (Specific T3 Boot photos from Clatter)

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewt ... sc&start=0 (Thread with some good photos in it)

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewt ... highlight= (More helpful photos)

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewt ... 40#9353440 (Carb Manifold Mod)

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewt ... ns&start=0 (Another reference thread)

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145853 (Cheap Junk Rebuild Thread)

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=151136 (1.7 Rebuild Thread)

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewt ... p?t=596485 (Notch with IRS conversion and T4 swap.)

-Individual Photos-

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/2048486.png (Nate's mythical t3 bellows adapter template)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1648951.jpg (Bobnotch photos)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1489634.jpg
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1489631.jpg
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1489632.jpg

[Clatter]

Can't believe this was 11 years ago...
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=116220&hilit=conversion

Here's what happened (so far). It's a bit bloated... Conversion details are in the first few pages.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewt ... p?t=581759

[Ephry73]

Tom had a great Notchback with a type 4 swap. Fit is perfect and well it should just be straight forward.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Angelo Amato]

I'm still running mine, been going well, forever changing something on the car, currently fitting brand new AMC big valve heads....

Just as well as when I removed my old ones, turns out one was a 2 litre, other was a 1.8 !! been like this for over a decade !

Angelo

[danielzink]

Still running mine.

Built the 2.3L Type4 back in 99/2000...been running strong since:

http://pws.cablespeed.com/~danielzink/notchback.htm

Dan

[nogoodwithusernames]

Thanks for the input, I finally picked up a core 1.7 EA 914 motor. Mostly complete save FI components, flywheel, and exhaust. Have yet to dig in much but should give me a decent starting point.

I'm going to try to keep it very much inline with Clatter's "cheap junk" build. Don't have a ton of cash to build a nice 2.? motor, just want a mild smooth driving with a slight power bump over the stock 1600.

Hoping for a relatively simple rebuild if everything is in good condition. Any problem re-honing factory cylinders and running new rings to avoid the expense of new P&Ls?

I'm also a bit lost with the flywheel for a conversion. I've read that flywheels up to but not including the 228mm should fit inside a T1 bell housing but have also read to use a conversion flywheel so can someone confirm either way?

[danielzink]

T4 conversion flywheel - relatively inexpensive:

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Type-4-Con ... -200fw.htm

[nogoodwithusernames]

Got it torn down to a short block today. So far nothing looks too bad. Will have to clean up the heads and see if they're going to be reusable. Only think I'm concerned about is it looks like there's some oxidation or fluff/buildup on one of the exhaust port sealing surfaces. I'll post up some photos once I get them cleaned up more and see if you guys think they'll be usable.

I was happy to find out it had domed pistons in it, anyone know how many CC's that takes or how to measure that? Here's some pictures in progress from earlier if anyone cares. It was quite caked over with grease and grime.

[nogoodwithusernames]

Good evening all, made further progress this afternoon. Started getting the case cleaned up, no sign of the T4 syndrome and so far it looks quite good. Even had the sump baffle plate in it still.
Cam is shot so I'm thinking the CB street power cam. Would that work well in a 1.7L? Running MS EFI so not constrained by the stock FI.
https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/2202.htm

In addition to my previous post's question about the pistons, how do the crank journals look? (aside from the dust stuck to the oil of course!)

Also the oil pump? Looks re-usable to me, no scoring and it looks like very little wear. (The gears look better in person, the photo looks like it highlighted some gunk or oil I missed with a quick wipe down.)

Now to the photos:

[twodollardoug]

I use paint stripper to clean my cases and it gets them spotless. And it doesn't take a lot of elbow grease.

[nogoodwithusernames]

Twodollardoug, I will certainly be trying that out on the other case half and some of the really grimy parts. Got this half pretty well cleaned up with a bit of work with a tiny screwdriver and some soda blasting. A few spots still but looking really good I think.


Got a photo of this stamp on the case, anyone know what it could mean?


The pistons have some weird pitting on the faces, the skirts measure okay and they don't seem to have scoring down the sides so can these be re-used with some new rings? The pitting isn't any deeper than the stampings already on the faces. They are KS with the steel support ring inside so they should be pretty nice pistons right?

[Bruce.m]

Looks like the engine has been suffering with pinking / light detonation? Perhaps running lean or having the ignition too far advanced?

How does the heads look? Similar damage?

[nogoodwithusernames]

Looks like the engine has been suffering with pinking / light detonation? Perhaps running lean or having the ignition too far advanced?

How does the heads look? Similar damage?

Haven't gotten into the heads yet, but pistons and heads both had/have a lot of brown and black carbon buildup.

[Clatter]

Everything looks really good to me.

So far I’m guessing that stuff will all just go back together.

Have to measure things to know for sure.

Keep us posted!

[nogoodwithusernames]

Still just working on getting things cleaned up. Started on one of the heads tonight to see how the chamber looked. No pitting like the pistons had, just as cast finish it looked like to me, so I don't know what's up with that. Just some crusty crud in there and especially on the ex valves. (A few photos below)

Will certainly be measuring everything to the best of my abilities, and certainly posting up here and asking questions when in doubt.