What parts fit on what VW? Steering box VS rack & Pinion?

[Noiro A. Buggyman]

So I have a sand rail.

Not sure what year the front is from, or the back.


All I know is:

1600cc Dual port.
Rack and pinion steering.
Bushings in the front, not ball joint

I have no front brakes at all, and I would like to put some on.

I picked up a 1970 VW Beetle for free. Its missing the engine, but otherwise its complete. It has ball joints in the front end, and a steering box.

Can I somehow make the front brakes work on my buggy?

What year range are my buggy parts?

Thanks.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

What are you going to use the sand rail for; street, trails or sand. It makes a difference. Basically on the sand we don't usually use front brakes.

King and Link (K&L) are 1965 and earlier while Ball Joint beams are 1966 and later.

The spread (the distance between the horizontal tubes where the torsion bars are) between a K&L beam and BJ is different also so they are not interchangeable w/o some work. The K&L beams are narrower between the tubes than the BJ beams.

I'm not sure but I think the K&L spindles, where the hubs ride on, are thinner so bearings are different between K&L and BJ spindles.

The torsion bar stack between the two beams are different also so they are not interchangeable.

King and link in stock form can get something like 9" of travel but I also have been told that with some changes the BJs can be made to go that far to (I don't recommend the modified (slots in the case are lengthened) BJs that are used in certain racing situations and that is about their limit while the K&L beams can be modified by changing the shock tower or making your own shock locating mount. There is a limit though w/o certain modifications.

The shock towers need to be strengthen when using stock towers and the addition of suspension stops are also a good idea. There are several ways to do it on the K&L beams but not so much on the BJ beams.

Also, the lower BJ on a bug is placed so that the BJ can be pulled out of it's trailing arm so the conversion for that is to use bus components where the spindle is different on the bottom allowing the BJ to be pressed in the trailing arm from the bottom. The bus stuff is getting harder to find and more expensive to purchase. The alignment adjusters for the Bus beam is next to impossible to find and when you get one they are very expensive.

Just a start; hope this helps some.

Lee

[Noiro A. Buggyman]

The buggy is going to be used for offroad use only. Maybe some sand once in a while, but mainly logging roads. The rear brake lines are plastic, and there are no front brakes at all, and no E-Brake. I would like to improve the braking system.

The brakes from a 1970 wont fit a 1960?

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Noiro, on the sand front brakes usually aren't used as when you hit the brake pedal, if the tires aren't straight ahead or the brakes are adjusted near perfectly, the steering wheel can be ripped out of your hands as the front tires lock up and dig in... in other words there is not much weight up front so almost anything can change directions. An argument might be that the sand I ride in isn't as compact as your might ride it in other places so I can't argue that so be prepared on how you hold onto the steering wheel; e.g., thumbs and fingers. There might be an option to this, and I don't know just how well it works and that is to put a lock out valve on the front brakes assuming you have a single cylinder brake system. With a dual chamber master cylinder for brakes I am not sure that this works or not.

Those see through lines seem to work OK on the sand but are very vulnerable to being snagged or destroyed when riding off-road. We have two rails in our group that are running them (we do sand only) but most of the people I know of don't think they are that safe to be honest. I just don't know what the life limit of them is as there may be a lot of outside factors involved (pun intended).

Turning brakes being added for the sand is another thing. They are put inline to the rear brakes and you have several options: a single handle setup; e.g., push/pull or dual handle pull for upright handles or lift for laydown handles. I don't think I have ever seen a single horizontal handle push/pull setup.

One other option to the dual handles is the ability to somewhat lock an open diff. 2-wheeler off-road guys often put their foot on the brake pedal to get enough load on the tires to eliminate the single wheel drive: IOW one wheel coasts on corners or loose footing driving conditions. The could cause the dance of death boogie-woogie you tootsies would have to go through when working the gas pedal and the brake or clutch pedal all at the same time.

Remember, there are other fun options you can play with both good and bad when dual purposing a rail. I am not saying don't do it as a lot of people do and are successful at it but just to think hard about it.

If your rail is street legal then check with your state, or if you ride on fed lands, on what you would be allowed or not allowed to do.

Lee

[Ol'fogasaurus]

As far as a R&P vs. a stock VW steering box the R&P is quicker and less turns from lock to lock. A good percentage of rails now days are built with electric power steering. The stock steering box is OK but strength isn't always there. I broke two within an hour of each other and part of that hour was working my way back to camp then changing the steering box.

I'll have to edit down some pixs I have but most of the guys I know are now converting their rails to one of several IFS suspensions styles on their rails; e.g., long travel or a shorter travel. The Electric PS, as I understand it is smooth working and, I think I heard, that the take a lot of the violent feed back out of the steering. Not positive but I think that is what has been said.

There are commercial P&P steering kits for beams that bolt to the center of the top beam or some mount a bit away from it... a you fit scenario; they are usually center steer so you have to deal with some universals in the steering shaft.

There are also R&Ps from cars that can be used but you have to figure out the mounting and the lengths of the bars that connect to the spindles. Most of them I think have the steering box located more on the driver's side of the car.

Lee

[Noiro A. Buggyman]

Im not sure how its going to turn out. I bought it on a whim.

I added a skid plate for the motor, some cage material, swapped the carb, plugs, wires, oil change, front bumper, roof box, rear shocks, belt guard, air filter, Supertrap type exhaust tip, valve springs, checked the trans fluid, tightened all the loose bolts, fixed a strip exhaust mounting bolt hole, added a neutral safety switch, adjusted peddles, fixed throttle linkage, adjusted the clutch, some wiring repairs, face guard on the exhaust tip, etc etc etc.

I am picking up VW beetles so that I will have spare parts, front brakes, etc.

Maybe I should be working on a different type of buggy, but I dont know.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

"...What year range are my buggy parts? "

The pix are good and it does look like a short wheel base, short back rail, with a swing axle (pre-69 here in the US) and BJ which again I think it pre-66.

Can't see what the engine mount looks like but there is a tube (kind of hidden) which looks like it could be a truss bar which, if it is is good!

The cage around the exhaust is something I have never seen before but if you are in the brush and low trees it might be a good thing.

The good think is that you have a useful rig which you can pretty much leave alone with the exception of upkeep or can through $$$ at it like the rest of us.

Good get!

Lee

[Noiro A. Buggyman]

The front end on mine does not have ball joints. I can take pics of the motor mounts and stuff if that helps identify what year the stuff is from. What all should I take pics of?

[Ol'fogasaurus]

The front end on mine does not have ball joints. I can take pics of the motor mounts and stuff if that helps identify what year the stuff is from. What all should I take pics of?

Your correct, I goofed! Having troubles with my computer today after a big update so I allowed myself to get miss-directed when I typed. K&L are pre-66 and the year for K&L was correct, the BJ wasn't .

buggyman's rail copy.jpg

The only question would be if the tube I am wondering about is a form of truss bar.

Lee

[Noiro A. Buggyman]

Gotcha, I will take more pics of that area.

[Noiro A. Buggyman]

Is this what your after?

[Noiro A. Buggyman]

Other side.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Question: Does it connect the transmission mount (aka pickle forks) to the rail's structure? If it does then the engine is better supported but even better would be to find some way to actually connect the engine to the cage as the trans is supported but the engine is still cantilevered out there... hanging free. Just better support of the engine as things bounce around.

In my blue buggy (sand only) the engine isn't supported either and I know better (bad me! ).

Lee

[Ol'fogasaurus]

20190915_155637[1] copy.jpg

buggyman's rail 02.jpg

I played with your picture and rotated it 45°. It does look to be a support for the pickle forks so that is good.

Sometimes it helps to look at something a bit differently which takes other things out of the picture (pun not intended) that might distract.

Lee

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Question:

Buggyman's rail 03 copy.jpg

Buggyman's rail 04 copy.jpg

This looks to be just a skid plate for protection if the engine hit the ground: if it is really needed, based on where you will be riding and how you drive, then I would add an engine mount connected to the cage, to support any eventuality of it really happening hence doing some damage to the rail or engine and/or running gear.

Not being picky just concerned.

Lee