Hey all,
I've read some past posts and realize that progressives on type IV's aren't as popular as duals or FI. With that said, I still need to make the sucker work. In addition to the progressive, it also has a 009 distributor (is this another hickey?), but it does have factory air. So, with the 009, should it be timed at 30 - 34 degrees at full advance? I have trouble with it being too far advanced (you can tell by the sound it makes while starting), plus I can't get the idle below 1200 rpm. Anyone have suggestions or solutions? I read on a past post that the stock distributor worked better than the 009? Comments? Suggestions other than "dump the progressive"?
type IV/progressive/t009/timing
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harley
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2002 12:01 am
type IV/progressive/t009/timing
Gunther:
Your problem is that you been drinking too much of that Miller Beer.
You are probably due to make your shop rent payment today too. Instead of worrying about this timing issue, you should be worrying about getting those rims and tires sold so we can pay our landlord!
Harley
Your problem is that you been drinking too much of that Miller Beer.
You are probably due to make your shop rent payment today too. Instead of worrying about this timing issue, you should be worrying about getting those rims and tires sold so we can pay our landlord!
Harley
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Gunthner
- Posts: 98
- Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2002 12:01 am
type IV/progressive/t009/timing
If drinking Miller beer would slow the idle and make that bus run better (although this is really thinking out of the box), then I might consider it.
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germansupplyscott
- Posts: 887
- Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 12:01 am
type IV/progressive/t009/timing
gunther,
i don't think you'll be able to get that much advance out of an 009 without being too far advanced at idle, so that may your problem. try timing it to 28 degrees at 3000 rpm. after that, go to this website and see what distributor your van is supposed to have:
http://www.oldvolkshome.com/ignition.htm
you are much better off with a stock distributor with both vacuum and mechanical advance.
scott lyons
i don't think you'll be able to get that much advance out of an 009 without being too far advanced at idle, so that may your problem. try timing it to 28 degrees at 3000 rpm. after that, go to this website and see what distributor your van is supposed to have:
http://www.oldvolkshome.com/ignition.htm
you are much better off with a stock distributor with both vacuum and mechanical advance.
scott lyons
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Jay Brown
- Posts: 62
- Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2002 1:01 am
type IV/progressive/t009/timing
Hey Gunther,
While your "dump the Progressive" concept sounds like the best possible idea, there are a few alternatives. First, the Weber Progressive can be used with a vac-advacnce (SVDA) unit to make it more driveable. You will still have to live with the carb icing issues, but it will perform better overall.
Another option that would be better than the dreaded 009/Progressive combo would be to go with a Bosch 050 mechanical advance distributor. It's advance curve is better suited to the Type IV engine than the 009 is.
My '72 came with a 009 and a set of Brazillian dual Webers. It ran crappy, had the flat spot off idle and genrally made me miserable. I got my hands on a good 050 while I was searching for the correct dizzy and that helped the drivability quite a bit. After a few weeks with this setup I found a decent used dual vac-advance unit that was more appropriate to my bus (not exactly right, but pretty close). I hooked up the advance to a vacuum port on the left carb and have been happy ever since.
You can get a new Bosch 050 for $69.95 from Bus Depot. Ron can also set you up with a rebuilt vac-advance unit for about 20 bucks more.
I recently got the exact right dizzy for my engine for $20.00 off ebay, but it took me months to find it. If you know what you are looking for and have the patience you will likely find the right parts at the right price. For a listing of the correct ignition parts for your particular engine, visit this link: http://www.oldvolkshome.com/ignition.htm it will list all of the correct parts for your setup.
Good Luck.
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Jay Brown
'72 Hardtop Camper
http://www.geocities.com/vwcamper72
While your "dump the Progressive" concept sounds like the best possible idea, there are a few alternatives. First, the Weber Progressive can be used with a vac-advacnce (SVDA) unit to make it more driveable. You will still have to live with the carb icing issues, but it will perform better overall.
Another option that would be better than the dreaded 009/Progressive combo would be to go with a Bosch 050 mechanical advance distributor. It's advance curve is better suited to the Type IV engine than the 009 is.
My '72 came with a 009 and a set of Brazillian dual Webers. It ran crappy, had the flat spot off idle and genrally made me miserable. I got my hands on a good 050 while I was searching for the correct dizzy and that helped the drivability quite a bit. After a few weeks with this setup I found a decent used dual vac-advance unit that was more appropriate to my bus (not exactly right, but pretty close). I hooked up the advance to a vacuum port on the left carb and have been happy ever since.
You can get a new Bosch 050 for $69.95 from Bus Depot. Ron can also set you up with a rebuilt vac-advance unit for about 20 bucks more.
I recently got the exact right dizzy for my engine for $20.00 off ebay, but it took me months to find it. If you know what you are looking for and have the patience you will likely find the right parts at the right price. For a listing of the correct ignition parts for your particular engine, visit this link: http://www.oldvolkshome.com/ignition.htm it will list all of the correct parts for your setup.
Good Luck.
------------------
Jay Brown
'72 Hardtop Camper
http://www.geocities.com/vwcamper72
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harley
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2002 12:01 am
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Gunthner
- Posts: 98
- Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2002 12:01 am
type IV/progressive/t009/timing
Thanks for all the help. Went to the shop to see if changing the distributor to a vacumn advance would help. NO. New problem, or at least we think we have narrowed down the problem.
With the new distributor, it sounds like it is running better, but we can't lower the idle. At 1600 rpm's its running like a champ, but as I start adjusting the idle screw, around 1200 it starts knocking and anything below 1200 kills the engine. So, this is my next question. Is the carburetor off? Maybe we have the wrong jets in the bus (we bought it used and it wasn't running). My thinking was at 1600 rpm's it is getting enough air for the gas flow but at 1200 rpm's and below it is flooding out. For all I know, this progressive might have come off of a V8 water cooled monster. Does this sound plausible?
And if it does, does anyone know what size jets belong in a Weber progressive for a 1700 VW bus?
Thanks again,
Gunther
With the new distributor, it sounds like it is running better, but we can't lower the idle. At 1600 rpm's its running like a champ, but as I start adjusting the idle screw, around 1200 it starts knocking and anything below 1200 kills the engine. So, this is my next question. Is the carburetor off? Maybe we have the wrong jets in the bus (we bought it used and it wasn't running). My thinking was at 1600 rpm's it is getting enough air for the gas flow but at 1200 rpm's and below it is flooding out. For all I know, this progressive might have come off of a V8 water cooled monster. Does this sound plausible?
And if it does, does anyone know what size jets belong in a Weber progressive for a 1700 VW bus?
Thanks again,
Gunther
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DingoDog
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2003 12:01 am
type IV/progressive/t009/timing
[ screw, around 1200 it starts knocking and anything below 1200 kills the engine. So, this is my next question. Is the carburetor off? Maybe we have the wrong jets in the bus (we bought it used and it wasn't running). My thinking was at 1600 rpm's it is getting enough air for the gas flow but at 1200 rpm's and below it is flooding out.
Sounds like your idle circuit is not functioning. It may be clogged or the jet itself may be clogged (easily removable). It should idle somewhat smoothly below 1000 even with 009. Also failure to idle might be due to air-leaks either past the throttle or a badly seating butterfly valve...Hook up a vacuum guage...that might give you some clues. Good luck.
Sounds like your idle circuit is not functioning. It may be clogged or the jet itself may be clogged (easily removable). It should idle somewhat smoothly below 1000 even with 009. Also failure to idle might be due to air-leaks either past the throttle or a badly seating butterfly valve...Hook up a vacuum guage...that might give you some clues. Good luck.
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metropoj
- Posts: 997
- Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2002 12:01 am
type IV/progressive/t009/timing
I agree with Dingodog. It sounds like you're running on mains and not Idle Jets. Your primary is a good start at a 45 or 50. See John Conelly at Aircooled.net, knowledge is power with these carbs. Another board member uses a Dodge Omni Air cleaner from the early Omni days to remove Carb Icing ... The carbs do work, but require some time and knowledge......
Make sure that Butterfly is pretty well completely closed so that only the idle is showing. Butterfly should be almosteven with lip of Mains so that when the throttle moves, the mains kick in. If you can't get to that stage you're not going to get anywhere. It's easier to set up the butterfly with the Carb off the motor ....
Make sure that Butterfly is pretty well completely closed so that only the idle is showing. Butterfly should be almosteven with lip of Mains so that when the throttle moves, the mains kick in. If you can't get to that stage you're not going to get anywhere. It's easier to set up the butterfly with the Carb off the motor ....
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Gunthner
- Posts: 98
- Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2002 12:01 am
type IV/progressive/t009/timing
metropoj and dingadong, you guys have lost me on how to get the idle circuit going. At idle, should the butterfly valve at the top of the carb be almost closed, so when it does open, the mains come into play? If so, I have the electric choke or some other adjustment on the butterfly valve out of whack. While trying to adjust the idle and the engine is warm, the butterfly valve is entirely open just like it looks on a Solex 30, 31 or 34 when they are warm. Is this correct or is the choke setting different on the Weber progressive?
Also, I now have a dual vac dist installed but can only find a single vac port on the carb. Do I block off a vac line on the dist or do I get another distributor better suited to this carb?
thanks for hanging in there.
Gunther
Also, I now have a dual vac dist installed but can only find a single vac port on the carb. Do I block off a vac line on the dist or do I get another distributor better suited to this carb?
thanks for hanging in there.
Gunther
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dylan
type IV/progressive/t009/timing
you guys have lost me on how to get the idle circuit going. At idle, should the butterfly valve at the top of the carb be almost closed, so when it does open, the mains come into play? If so, I have the electric choke or some other adjustment on the butterfly valve out of whack. While trying to adjust the idle and the engine is warm, the butterfly valve is entirely open just like it looks on a Solex 30, 31 or 34 when they are warm. Is this correct or is the choke setting different on the Weber progressive?
Also, I now have a dual vac dist installed but can only find a single vac port on the carb. Do I block off a vac line on the dist or do I get another distributor better suited to this carb?
At this point, I dont think the dist. is the problem. I use a 009 with prog. carb and it idles just fine. Given that you experience the same idle problems with different dist., points to the carb. as source of problem.
There are a variety of possible reasons why it is not wannting to idle. A vacuum leak anywhere around the carb or manifold is one possibility. Another is leaks around the throttle spindle. While running, direct some WD-40 to different places and see if the idle improves for a few seconds, that will tell you. If none of that helps, then your problem might be leaks around the throttle valves(the ones at the bottom of the carb -NOT the choke valve). Remove carb and look thru the bottom at a bright light and you will know if the valves are seating well or not. As I said earlier, it is easy to remove the idle jest, clean them, make sure the o-ring is ok. The idle system may be clogged with dirt...Be patient. What is your vacuum reading ?
Also, I now have a dual vac dist installed but can only find a single vac port on the carb. Do I block off a vac line on the dist or do I get another distributor better suited to this carb?
At this point, I dont think the dist. is the problem. I use a 009 with prog. carb and it idles just fine. Given that you experience the same idle problems with different dist., points to the carb. as source of problem.
There are a variety of possible reasons why it is not wannting to idle. A vacuum leak anywhere around the carb or manifold is one possibility. Another is leaks around the throttle spindle. While running, direct some WD-40 to different places and see if the idle improves for a few seconds, that will tell you. If none of that helps, then your problem might be leaks around the throttle valves(the ones at the bottom of the carb -NOT the choke valve). Remove carb and look thru the bottom at a bright light and you will know if the valves are seating well or not. As I said earlier, it is easy to remove the idle jest, clean them, make sure the o-ring is ok. The idle system may be clogged with dirt...Be patient. What is your vacuum reading ?