901 Trans into a T-3?

Hebster · Post by **Hebster** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 1:54 am

Anybody installed a 901 transmission into a IRS T-3?

I'm mainly interested in how you solved the gearshift lever from the nosecone.

Thank You.

vw4life269s · Post by **vw4life269s** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:26 pm

My Mechanic friend did it in his 70 beetle and he made German Look style.He told me the tranny is from a 914 5-speed.Then got a early 911 nose cone and hockey stick and put it on the tranny. He then used a 911 shift rod and 911 shifter from a early 911 to put it in his Beetle.He did cut a SMALL circle section and put the shift rod through then used a grommet to protect water from getting in the tunnel. I think he had to modify the lenght of the shift rod to line up were the old beetle shifter was.I tell you this is one bad ass bug. 2056 type 4,901 5-speed in a 70 beetle that has all porsche guages and 911 fan shroud from FAT and a REAL 911 alt. and fan assy.I will get pics when I get back to so-cal.Iam in Georgia for now.Hope this helps.

Hebster · Post by **Hebster** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:43 pm

Thanks, but I allready know how to do it on a Type-1. I need to know how to do it in a Type-3 because they have a different design on the rearsubframe and floorpan...

Clatter · Post by **Clatter** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:29 pm

I really want to know this one, too.
Certainly someone has done it...
There is a 091 tranny conversion thread on the type4rum.
maybe a little dyslexia could be applied to convert 091 into 901!

With the rear subframe being unboltable/swappable, it might be best to use a swingaxle subframe and add weld-on IRS pivot mouts?
Maybe as a last resort, the torsion housing could have a "C' cut in it, that went up and over the nosecone, then the front mounting pad could be split into two mounting pads that the nosecone went between?
Al of this would have to live in a little house under the back seat.
If you were going to go through all of this trouble, it might be wise to just go for a 915 trans in the first place...

Definately, with a heavier (nicer) car like the type3, a 5-speed would be the sweetest thing EVER.

Someone out there knows more about this, right?

BigGerman · Post by **BigGerman** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:28 am

My friend and I are in the process of doing it right now to his notch. We are still fabricating frame horns to the IRS and fabing front mounts for the porsche trans.

I'll let you know what happens with the shift rod when we get there.

Hebster · Post by **Hebster** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:39 am

Ok. Thanks tell us as soon as you have some info about it.

So, you are making the framehorns too? I was planning on running without them and only make the frontmounts for the transmission and the rearmount on the engine just like the original T-3 and/or Porsche 911 with the crossmember.

BigGerman · Post by **BigGerman** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 10:59 am

Yes, frame horns too. We don't like the mustache bar in the way of everything.

Clatter · Post by **Clatter** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:07 pm

I remember from working with beetle-motor type 3's that the slick way to make a brace for the hi-po engine was to use factory parts:
Take a swingaxle type 3 subframe, and weld IRS pivots to it,
-or-
Use the IRS subframe, and weld frame horns to it.

Then use the IRS moustache bar and mounts that weld to the body.

This way you have the framehorns and front mount from the early car, plus the rear mount from the late one as a traction bar.
The IRS rear mount usually takes the whole weight of the engine, so it is way overbuilt for use as just a traction bar, plus, it's quiet.
Using the traditional framehorns and front (nosecone) mount allows you to use a Berg or Mohr, or other front mout stiffener, plus, (theoretically) allow the mods for a 5-Speed to go in similar as in a beetle, right?

Clatter · Post by **Clatter** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:35 pm

Maybe the automatic subframe could be easier to work with for this conversion?
Anyone here ever look at one that way?

GjMan · Post by **GjMan** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:18 am

IRS automatic and manual subframes are identical. Using a 67 or earlier SA subframe and converting it to IRS has a big advantage, in that it uses a standard T1 front mount. The 68-on subframes take a front mount specific to T3. Of course, if you have to fab a complete front mount anyway, this will not be a big deal.

Ribz · Post by **Ribz** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:53 pm

isnt the rear end of a T3 and a bug the same for the most part?

this guy has some cool stuff, http://www.bugat5speed.de/cms/ hope you read German or http://babelfish.altavista.com/

Hebster · Post by **Hebster** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:58 pm

I know about the bug@5speed parts allready. Thanks anyways

On T-3's the reartorsionhousing is unboltable from the floorpan. The swingaxle ones only have the transmission horns. IRS ones not, the on the other hand have a rearmount that sicks to the rear of the engine.

This is how a swing T-3 rear looks like unbolted:

And this is how a T-3 IRS rear subframe looks like:

Here with a 915 transmission testfitted, You can see where the gearlever axle will go. It will be pretty close...

(not my pictures, I found them on thesamba and on www.t-34.co.uk )

Clatter · Post by **Clatter** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:17 pm

Those pics are sweet, for sure.

The third one has me thinking...

They have the nose cone of their 915 sitting up against the torsion housing, but how are they locating it?

Knowing what I do about putting a 901 into a bug, The 901 bellhousing has a set of pads (that you drill out) that correspond to the frame horn mid-mount points as a bug. The 915 does not.

There are not a set of frame horns from a swingaxle welded onto the the IRS housing, so where in relation to the housing are they getting the measurement for the picture?

Would you hang it with no midmount, just moustache, like the IRS type 3?

Gotta wonder if you need a nosecone from the bugat5speed.de guys for the 915 in order to make it fit. See how they remove the speedo drive from the nosecone? I bet it would be needed if you didn't move the engine to the rear, or hack your torsion housing...

Anyone know for sure?

Maybe someone who speaks German could ask the bugat5speed guys how their stuff would be used for a type 3?

Their stuff is bitchen, man.

A type 3, with a stroker type 4 and 915 trans.
I'll do it some day I will, I will...

Clatter · Post by **Clatter** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 11:14 am

A quote from the T-34 site:

The engine mounts/mounting bar, at the rear of the engine will need to be modified, the engine that I fitted originally came out of a transporter, the bar was shortened so that it could be fitted using the original transporter mounting brackets in place of the rubber type 3/34 engine mounts. This worked fine, but I found that because my car was IRS, the engine was only supported between the gearbox mount at the front, and the engine mounts, practically in the centre of the mounting bar at the rear, this allowed the engine to twist along its axis. I didn't get around to fitting new engine mounts to see if this cured the problem. This shouldn't be a problem with swing axle cars as the gearbox is firmly supported by the chassis. A better alternative, I feel, would be to fit the type 3/34 mounting bar to the engine and keep the existing engine mounts. Although I didn't try this (the mounting bar had already been converted), I'm sure that it could be made to fit.

Herein lies some wisdom

The moustache bar that came on a bus was only used as a locator, or "floater", not for support.
The bellhousing mounts provided the support.

The type 3 IRS rear mount was structural in nature, and bore the weight of the engine and trans.

Two Ideas come to mind...

1. Modify the Bus moustache bar by fabbing some solid mounts to replace the rubber mounts at the case.

2. Use the four rubber mounts and bar, a la Vanagon or 914.
(this still probably wouldn't be strong enough, but would be super quiet.)

Either method would require that you mod the bar to pick up the IRS type 3 rear mounts. They were strong enough for the factory, and you could use the rubber isolation to keep the noise down.
They were designed to counteract the twist of the motor, so why not?

On a side note - I have taken the bar mounts out of an IRS car and welded them into a swingaxle body. The bodies are the same in that area, so you can just drill out the spotwelds, and move the mount brackets to the earlier cars.

fastmatt1 · Post by **fastmatt1** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:42 pm

so has anyone solved the shift linkage dilemma? I have just mounted a 2.0L 911 with a 901 5 speed in my 65 notchback and am now stuck on the shifter issue.