CB flanged crank bearing modification

[Alexander_Monday]

I have ordered a CB flanged crank and the type 1 to type 4 bearings.
This is for my supercharged street warrior (not an every day driver).
Considering the bad wear reputation of flanged thrust bearings I wonder if an old V8 trick would help.
Instead of me trying to describe it, this video does a good job.
If not help, would it hurt to try it?
Thoughts?

[media]https://youtu.be/qBGPPoLjmwE?si=rnuYNUKXE3KysnIQ[/media]

[Piledriver]

Not a bad idea, am curious as to surface finish on the crank thrust surfaces, harder to inspect in the gap.

[Alexander_Monday]

Not a bad idea, am curious as to surface finish on the crank thrust surfaces, harder to inspect in the gap.

I will try to remember to report what the crank thrust surfaces are like visually and feel.
I do not have the instrumentation to do an actual roughness test.

I asked Mark at CB about the bearing modification and he knew about the idea but didn't mention anyone doing it on a VW.
He didn't think it would hurt anything to do it so I am going to do it.
I will see what the CB aluminum case has for a drain back and use my judgement to enlarge it or not.
Because I want to give this engine every chance to survive as a weekend street warrior, I am also getting an RLR street 6 clutch to reduce the pressure on the thrust bearing.
Hopefully it will have smooth engagement, there are conflicting reports on engagement (on/off or smooth) that I have found on the web.
The pressure plate I was using (a local company made) with a 4 puck copper or a 6 puck black magic was close to on/off.
But it was slipping when shifting at WOT @ 14# boost with the 2110 so an upgrade was necessary for the 2387.
I do know and always have started any manual car in neutral without holding the clutch down so the oil can get flowing.
I am going to try the Moroso Accusump again, I used to use one to prelube before starting.
The first one started leaking after probably 12K miles and 10 years.
I replaced the o rings and polished the inside but it started again.
I bought a new one that started leaking shortly after installing it, so I removed it and haven't torn it down yet.

[Piledriver]

Seems like a small electric pump for prelube (with a check valve) would be smaller, more reliable and a lot cheaper, and probably last forever. Won't help if you run out going around corners but I suspect you are mostly going straight.

[Alexander_Monday]

Seems like a small electric pump for prelube (with a check valve) would be smaller, more reliable and a lot cheaper, and probably last forever. Won't help if you run out going around corners but I suspect you are mostly going straight.

Did you have a particular one in mind?
I have been looking for a prelube pump, but what I have found either is expensive or doesn't have the proper temperature and or pressure ratings.
I found some bad stories from people that tried to use inexpensive transfer pumps.

This one would be the cats meow, but I emailed them and it is $1,095!
https://varnaproducts.com/product/ep-4- ... -oil-pump/

This GP301-12L would probably be the best bang for the buck and since it is for an aircraft I assume good enough.
https://infinityaerospace.com/product/o ... -oil-pump/
It would need an inline one way check valve since it doesn't have one built in like the expensive one.
By the time I got the check valve, 8AN fittings for the pump, made new lines, etc. I would probably be in the $600 to $800 range.

[Piledriver]

Mocal makes several built for purpose for under $200, Swagelok check valves are ~$40 and rebuildable, with cracking pressures down to 1/2 PSI. Can be had in NPT in/out, in naval brass or SS, or with proper Swagelock fittings to go on steel line.

These pumps are made for turbo scavenge or feed, diffs etc. Using them just to prime on startup would be no stress for them.

[Alexander_Monday]

Found a "lightly used in the shop" Weldon 9200a in pristine condition for $200 and purchased it.
Rated 0F to 350F
Continuous duty
Rebuildable
Internal relief valve (no psi listed but I found 2 online comments from users at 55psi & 60psi)
30 gph @ 300F (no weight listed, but I found where it tested at 31 gph with 90w gear oil @ 200F)
Also used by GM as an option on the C5 Corvette as a transmission oil cooler pump GM part # 12480081
And I found several online references to using it as a bullet proof turbo oil scavenger pump.
So I am feeling pretty good about this one meeting my expectations.
I can see by the pictures it was never mounted and looks brand new.

Screenshot_20250201_101143_eBay.jpg

Guess I will see how it does.

CB said they should be done with machine work and balancing next week.
Kevin said he lost his disassembler a few months back so has been doing everything but thought my transaxle would be done in 2 to 3 weeks.
He wasn't at all worried about the increase from 2110 to 2387 since it will have the best of parts.

[Clatter]

What a great little trick.

You have to just imagine what the life of a thrust mearing must be like with one of those heavy pressure plates...

Why not just throw on a little chamfer with a file on any rear main at assembly time?

Thanks for sharing that.

[Piledriver]

I think he ordered a dual disc clutch, which will give double the bite for a given plate.
Wally made one from a 914 plate, turned it into a 228mm and ran a stage2 plate past 450 HP no slip.
Harder on the synchros if you have synchros.

Easiest if you have an 090 automatic.

[Alexander_Monday]

Yes, after much consideration and calling around I ended up ordering an RLR street 6 clutch system.
Not cheap, but I think probably the best setup for what I am doing.
He sent the flywheel and clutch directly to CB since they were balancing the rotating assembly.
Got an email that CB had finished, now awaiting the shipping notice.
Kevin @ KCR hopefully will be done with my transaxle soon.
I let him know of my clutch choice and he said "Ron's clutch setup is a very nice piece." and didn't mention synchro problems.

[Piledriver]

It's a spinning mass issue, with your 6" multidisc its no issue at all, slick setup.

The twin disk 228mm I mentioned, disks were probably closer in spinning mass to a full-disk sintered clutch IIRC you used before, and likely better on a street driver or road racing setup where instant shifts are not quite as much of a priority.
The 228mm pressure plate can also be a bear to clearance for in a VW T1 transmission, even though the ring gear on the flywheel is same size. (fits in 914/901, early 911 and many later Porsche later transmissions fine, its a clearance thing)
Some later model/aftermarket transmission cases may have a bit more room in the bell housing.
You don't need it.

[Alexander_Monday]

Crossing fingers, a guy I know local had to do a lot of clearance work for the rev 6, but his is a swing and mine an IRS.

[Piledriver]

The rev6 should not be a huge issue, the 228mm pressure plates stick out a LOT more than the 200s. (both in and in max diameter)
If you are running a hydraulic TO bearing setup it could be more involved.

[Alexander_Monday]

Regular cable clutch